9/11-investigator explains the Holocaust

[Belz...]

Holocaust were not the first or last genocide in history, so I don't see why it should be so hard to believe, unless somebody really don't want to.

Revisionist agenda, basically. They need to re-write history. I think it gives them the impression that they are smarter and more knowledgeable than other people. Perhaps its an inferiority complex thing.

 

[Skeptic]

Revisionist agenda, basically. They need to re-write history. I think it gives them the impression that they are smarter and more knowledgeable than other people. Perhaps its an inferiority complex thing.

It's not an inferiority complex if you really are inferior.

 

[Nonpareil]

I am not surprised that a Dresden bombing believer like 9/11 investigator is resorting to quoting fiction writers (Kurt Vonnegut) as "evidence" for the hoax about Dresden being bombed ca. February 1945. That German lie is constantly being exposed, in stronger and stronger ways, by brave men and women for what it is, namely, a propaganda hoax by Nazis to gather sympathy for their cause. (Just look how 9/11 investigator uses it all the time.)

But what is the evidence? Take away a few forged documents, allegedly by the British, and all you have left is "eyewitness" accounts by Germans -- obviously made-up lies, since they're an interested party (just look at all the money they sponged off the guilt-ridden Americans in the Marshall plan after the war!) -- and similarly unreliable propaganda documents by Nazi town officials. It is true that there are some ruins in the area, but that is all the Germans' fault, the result of fighting during the war due to Hitler's idiotic "stand your ground at all costs" decree, not due to any allied planes bombing the place.

Even a little thinking shows that bombing Dresden would have made little military sense. Why would the allies waste precious airplanes and explosives, in the middle of a world war, just to bomb a city with little strategic importance and practically no military industry?

There's, in short, neither any reliable evidence, nor any logical reason, for any allied bombing of Dresden. Having no evidence and knowing it, 9/11 investigator is reduced to quoting an American comic fiction writer.

Ah well. So much for the Dresden hoax.

Win.

 

[Belz...]

No trouble with victors justice?

Now who's making accusations ?

 

[peteweaver]

Revisionist agenda, basically. They need to re-write history. I think it gives them the impression that they are smarter and more knowledgeable than other people. Perhaps its an inferiority complex thing.

Not only that it helps the revisionists to excuse their political heroes, or at the very least, portray them in a more favourable light.

 

[carlitos]

paging 'investigator'

Not for the tenth time. See page 3.

I see no reference to DECEMBER diary entry by Goebbels on page 3.

Bezüglich der Judenfrage ist der Führer entschlossen, reinen Tisch zu machen. Er hat den Juden prophezeit, daß, wenn sie noch einmal einen Weltkrieg herbeiführen würden, sie dabei ihre Vernichtung erleben würden. Das ist keine Phrase gewesen. Der Weltkrieg ist da, die Vernichtung des Judentums muß die notwendige Folge sein.

With respect of the Jewish Question, the Führer has decided to make a clean sweep. He prophesied to the Jews that if they again brought about a world war, they would live to see their annihilation in it. That wasn't just a catch-word. The world war is here, and the annihilation of the Jews must be the necessary consequence.

You were also asked how the Jews "inflicted" the war on the Germans, per your statement.

 

[Nonpareil]

Why do you think that was? Let me help you. Before the Baltic states were conquered by the Germans, they first were conquered by the Soviets. And guess who the Balts perceived as the centrale organizing core of the Soviets? The Jews.

1) Evidence?
2) Did they have evidence?

 

[9/11-investigator]

I am not surprised that a Dresden bombing believer like 9/11 investigator is resorting to quoting fiction writers (Kurt Vonnegut) as "evidence" for the hoax about Dresden being bombed ca. February 1945. That German lie is constantly being exposed, in stronger and stronger ways, by brave men and women for what it is, namely, a propaganda hoax by Nazis to gather sympathy for their cause. (Just look how 9/11 investigator uses it all the time.)

But what is the evidence? Take away a few forged documents, allegedly by the British, and all you have left is "eyewitness" accounts by Germans -- obviously made-up lies, since they're an interested party (just look at all the money they sponged off the guilt-ridden Americans in the Marshall plan after the war!) -- and similarly unreliable propaganda documents by Nazi town officials. It is true that there are some ruins in the area, but that is all the Germans' fault, the result of fighting during the war due to Hitler's idiotic "stand your ground at all costs" decree, not due to any allied planes bombing the place.

Even a little thinking shows that bombing Dresden would have made little military sense. Why would the allies waste precious airplanes and explosives, in the middle of a world war, just to bomb a city with little strategic importance and practically no military industry?

There's, in short, neither any reliable evidence, nor any logical reason, for any allied bombing of Dresden. Having no evidence and knowing it, 9/11 investigator is reduced to quoting an American comic fiction writer.

Ah well. So much for the Dresden hoax.

Interesting comparison with which you shoot yourself in the foot.

Here is a picture from the crime scene:

http://www.ns-archiv.de/krieg/deutschland/dresden/dresden.jpg

Forgery? There are thousands of these pictures of other German cities as well. Most of them, come to think of it. Indiscriminate targetting of civilians. (Japan, Vietnam, Cambodja, Iraq same thing).

I can produce dozens. So can you. Just google 'dresden bombardement'

Where are your dozens of pictures of gas chambers full of dead people? There are none. Millions of people supposedly died that way but there is no forensic evidence and that's impossible. All the forensic evidence is against it (Leuchter/Rudolf, Krege). No document trail. No Hitler order. Hilberg admitting as much. There are endless eyewitness accounts... of the deportations. But almost none of direct 'gassings'. You want to discuss an eyewitness account? Name one. There are only a handfull. Vrba or maybe even that crook Wiesel? There are photos taken from the air of Auschwitz during the Hungarian deportations where thousands should have lined up before the gaschambers. Nothing to be seen.

 

[Cleon]

Meh. Photos can be faked.

 

[9/11-investigator]

1) Evidence?
2) Did they have evidence?

Here is starter from an American periodical.

http://www.foreignpolicy.com/story/cms.php?story_id=4859&print=1

Lithuania is investigating Jewish Holocaust survivors as war criminals—and using their own memoirs as evidence against them.

That victimization came during the brutal Soviet occupation. It was marked by the repression of Lithuanian culture, the deportation of many thousands of Lithuanians to Siberia, and the murder of Lithuanian independence fighters. The Soviets strictly controlled information and wrote Lithuania’s history books. Today, as the country struggles to write its own narrative, most Lithuanians see the Soviets as the real villains of World War II. “The Spielberg view of the war is totally irrelevant to [Lithuanians] because that was not their experience,” Suziedelis said. Instead, Lithuanian Jews, who allied with the Soviets to fight the Nazis, are today often regarded as deserving of punishment for Soviet crimes.

 

[Nonpareil]

Interesting comparison with which you shoot yourself in the foot.

Here is a picture from the crime scene:

http://www.ns-archiv.de/krieg/deutschland/dresden/dresden.jpg

Forgery? There are thousands of these pictures of other German cities as well. Most of them, come to think of it. Indiscriminate targetting of civilians. (Japan, Vietnam, Cambodja, Iraq same thing).

I can produce dozens. So can you. Just google 'dresden bombardement'

Where are your dozens of pictures of gas chambers full of dead people? There are none. Millions of people supposedly died that way but there is no forensic evidence and that's impossible. All the forensic evidence is against it (Leuchter/Rudolf, Krege). No document trail. No Hitler order. Hilberg admitting as much. There are endless eyewitness accounts... of the deportations. But almost none of direct 'gassings'. You want to discuss an eyewitness account? Name one. There are only a handfull. Vrba or maybe even that crook Wiesel? There are photos taken from the air of Auschwitz during the Hungarian deportations where thousands should have lined up before the gaschambers. Nothing to be seen.

Hey, I think I found you on Flame Warriors.

Anyway. First of all, you obviously miss the point of satire. Secondly, the bombing of Dresden has absolutely nothing to do with the Holocaust. Finally...

- Pictures
- Speech by a German official on the extermination of the Jews
- More documentation of the killing of Jews
- Why there are few photos by German soldiers
- Speech by Himmler to the SS referring to the extermination program
- Evidence given at trial on Auschwitz

...yes, there is evidence for the Germans wishing to exterminate the Jewish people.

 

[9/11-investigator]

Meh. Photos can be faked.

Not thousands.

 

[Simon39759]

Interesting comparison with which you shoot yourself in the foot.

Here is a picture from the crime scene:

http://www.ns-archiv.de/krieg/deutschland/dresden/dresden.jpg

Forgery? There are thousands of these pictures of other German cities as well. Most of them, come to think of it. Indiscriminate targetting of civilians. (Japan, Vietnam, Cambodja, Iraq same thing).

I can produce dozens. So can you. Just google 'dresden bombardement'

Where are your dozens of pictures of gas chambers full of dead people? There are none. Millions of people supposedly died that way but there is no forensic evidence and that's impossible. All the forensic evidence is against it (Leuchter/Rudolf, Krege). No document trail. No Hitler order. Hilberg admitting as much. There are endless eyewitness accounts... of the deportations. But almost none of direct 'gassings'. You want to discuss an eyewitness account? Name one. There are only a handfull. Vrba or maybe even that crook Wiesel? There are photos taken from the air of Auschwitz during the Hungarian deportations where thousands should have lined up before the gaschambers. Nothing to be seen.

Obviously the German did that to their own cities to accuse the Allies.

Come on, prove me wrong.

 

[Nonpareil]

Here is starter from an American periodical.

http://www.foreignpolicy.com/story/cms.php?story_id=4859&print=1

Lithuania is investigating Jewish Holocaust survivors as war criminals—and using their own memoirs as evidence against them.

That victimization came during the brutal Soviet occupation. It was marked by the repression of Lithuanian culture, the deportation of many thousands of Lithuanians to Siberia, and the murder of Lithuanian independence fighters. The Soviets strictly controlled information and wrote Lithuania’s history books. Today, as the country struggles to write its own narrative, most Lithuanians see the Soviets as the real villains of World War II. “The Spielberg view of the war is totally irrelevant to [Lithuanians] because that was not their experience,” Suziedelis said. Instead, Lithuanian Jews, who allied with the Soviets to fight the Nazis, are today often regarded as deserving of punishment for Soviet crimes.

I'm not going to read through that entire thing. Condense it, please - I have stuff I have to do today.
And again, it has NOTHING TO DO WITH THE HOLOCAUST.

 

[Nonpareil]

Not thousands.

Then by your own logic you are defeated.

 

[Belz...]

Forgery? There are thousands of these pictures of other German cities as well.

Well, coming from someone who ignores hundreds of photographs and documents and records of Nazi atrocities, I find this hilarious.

Of course, the hilarity has something to do with the fact that it's also a tu quoque argument.

 

[carlitos]

paging 'investigator'

Originally Posted by 9/11-investigator
Not for the tenth time. See page 3.

Originally Posted by carlitos
I see no reference to DECEMBER diary entry by Goebbels on page 3.

Bezüglich der Judenfrage ist der Führer entschlossen, reinen Tisch zu machen. Er hat den Juden prophezeit, daß, wenn sie noch einmal einen Weltkrieg herbeiführen würden, sie dabei ihre Vernichtung erleben würden. Das ist keine Phrase gewesen. Der Weltkrieg ist da, die Vernichtung des Judentums muß die notwendige Folge sein.

With respect of the Jewish Question, the Führer has decided to make a clean sweep. He prophesied to the Jews that if they again brought about a world war, they would live to see their annihilation in it. That wasn't just a catch-word. The world war is here, and the annihilation of the Jews must be the necessary consequence.

You were also asked how the Jews "inflicted" the war on the Germans, per your statement.

 

[Toke]

Hey, I think I found you on Flame Warriors.

Thanks for the link.

 

[Skeptic]

Here is a picture from the crime scene:

Do you see any bombers in the picture you posted? Any bombs being dropped? No? Told you you can't.

How do we know the damage -- even if it is Dresden -- was not caused by house-to-house fighting due to Nazis fighting to the last round according to Hitler's insane orders? I can certainly show you many speeches of Hitler saying that, while you can't show me a single bomber actually dropping a bomb on Dresden.

Where are those pictures, if there was a raid of so many planes?

Look -- movies existed during that time, right? Provide one movie from the time of the bombing actually showing a single American plane throwing a single bomb on Dresden. There are a few CLAIMING to be about it -- but none of them shows the bomb from any plane hitting any cultural landmarks of Dresden. All we see is some explosions in the dark over an unidentifiable burning city. Again, how do we know it's not one of those cities the Germans bombed themselves? How do you know the "RAF" fighters in the plane are not German actors?

Some "evidence" that is. All your thrashing about and all you can give is some photos of a damaged city that (a) probably isn't even Dresden, (b) was probably taken after the war in any case, and (c) doesn't show a single bomber dropping a single bomb on Dresden.

Pathetic. You're just proving more and more it's a German hoax.

 

[9/11-investigator]

- Pictures

This is too ridiculous to waste time on. You still have not understood what this thread is about.

- Speech by a German official on the extermination of the Jews

That Frank chap is about operations in the field against partisans. You know what a partisan is, I hope? I am concentrating here on the 6 so-called extermination camps.

- More documentation of the killing of Jews
Proposal for the Sterilization of 2-3 Million Jewish Workers, June 23, 1942

Wonder where the Germans got that idea from? Wait I have it:

Theodore N. Kaufman, the author of Germany Must Perish, was a Manhattan-born Jewish businessman who was also chairman of a group that called itself the "American Federation for Peace." The first edition of this slim volume was published in 1940 or early 1941.
Kaufman's fervent proposal for the systematic sterilization of the entire German population was given respectful attention in the American press, including reviews in a number of newspapers. A review in the weekly Time magazine, March 24, 1941, called Kaufman's plan a "sensational idea."

http://www.ihr.org/books/kaufman/perish.html

- Evidence given at trial on Auschwitz [/QUOTE]

http://www.aaargh.codoh.info/fran/livres5/crowellholmes.pdf
The Soviet presentation, covering most of February, 1946, was considered excessive by some: after presenting an affidavit that a German commandant had taken Jewish children, thrown them in the air, and then shot them for the entertainment of his small daughter, Justice Parker of the United States would be heard to privately comment: "They have gone too far!"272 When Mesdames Vaillant Couturier and Shmegelovskaya
presented fantastic testimonies of the mass gassings at Auschwitz, Justice Biddle of the United States would note privately "I doubt this"273 and Justice Birkett of the United Kingdom would express private misgivings.274 But it points to the hysterical atmosphere of the time that neither they, nor anyone else, had the courage to publicly dissent and inject some rationality into the proceedings.275


http://www.aaargh.codoh.info/fran/techniques/Holmes2.html
cf. Harris, op. cit. These two women were the main witnesses to what transpired at Auschwitz, Vaillant-Couturier's testimony was admittedly hearsay. They were not cross-examined.


Just bleat your story in the microphone and we will write it down for all eternity.

...yes, there is evidence for the Germans wishing to exterminate the Jewish people.

Wishing and doing are 2 different things. The Germans had no reason whatsoever to like them.