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Why do (some) astrologers ask for the exact time of birth?

What you will want is a forecast on your own personal transits relative to a point in time, and these forecasts must be practical, something you can actual use in the real world, either personally, or professionally.
If this is true, then you should be able to provide some evidence for it. Evidence that people who have been given such useful information have, on average, been more personally or professionally successful than people who haven't, say. So please do so.
 
I meant, can you do a reading? What kind of reading can you do? Are you saying astrology can predict my future? If I were your customer, what would you do for me?

Please note: I am not debating anything with you nor am I here to learn about astrology. I am asking what you would do, if I were your customer, to help make my life better? Or do I need to pay you for this information?

Another note: If you don't wish to discuss such things in public feel free to PM me.

Those are good questions.

I would add that an example of the types of things you deliver would be good.
 
If this is true, then you should be able to provide some evidence for it. Evidence that people who have been given such useful information have, on average, been more personally or professionally successful than people who haven't, say. So please do so.

You are from England, right? Your own monarchs have employed astrologers, and some of the best known astrologers were from the U.K., which has a rich history of serious practicioners. The best known monarch who used astrology to destroy the Spanish Armada was Queen Elizabeth I.

As for personal readings, it depends on the person. Of the thousands of readings I've given, each one is different, as people have all kinds of issues, both personally and professionally. I could not tell you how to provide "evidence" for it as you would have to ask those people who have had my readings, and I don't give their personal information out.

Most people, especially skeptics, don't have a clue as to what constitutes astrology in general to be able to form any opinion without actually studying serious astrology, not the junk kind you think is astrology, which is not.

There's a lot of charlatans and wannabees out there who don't know what they are doing and play on the fears of others for a buck. You will find that in all professions. Those who are so-called "astrologers" who do not know what they are doing are those who do not want to put in the long, hard years of study to actually perform a professional service that is very difficult because of the complexities of the work.

You will not find "evidence" or "proof" of Astrology in general in natal astrology. I've made this clear on another thread. It cannot be measured by conventional means. The same cannot be done using psychological means. How can you know for sure that a person is "happier" than they've been unless they tell you?

And even then, are they really happy, or more successful because of treatment or just lying to cover up the fact that they are really depressed.

The best thing that can be done by the true professional astrologer is provide quality guidance for those who seek it but to understand that we all shape our own destinies by the choices or non-choices we make in life. It has always been this way and always will.
 
Why not? There's a bunch of us, after all.



Try doing the research for yourself, why don't you? I don't have time to teach people who aren't willing to think for themselves.

Nah, just kidding. The MDC is an open challenge by the James Randi Educational Foundation. Anyone who can prove that they have some kind of paranormal ability - telekinesis, dowsing, or even the ability to predict the future through astrology - can take the challenge. You apply, then arrange a scientific test under controlled conditions under which you prove your paranormal claims. If you pass, you get a million dollars and all the publicity you can eat.

Complete waste of time. How can you test such things with the limited tools of conventional science. Scientists cannot even replicate weather conditions in a lab much less test the powers of the human mind. The Randi Foundation would be better to save its million or give it to charity to help people in these tough times.

I don't do this for the money. Professional astrologers do get paid as all professionals do or they would not be professionals. I was born with this mathematical skill and use it to help people the best I can. My clients know my work and I am satisfied with that.
 
I meant, can you do a reading? What kind of reading can you do? Are you saying astrology can predict my future? If I were your customer, what would you do for me?

Please note: I am not debating anything with you nor am I here to learn about astrology. I am asking what you would do, if I were your customer, to help make my life better? Or do I need to pay you for this information?

Another note: If you don't wish to discuss such things in public feel free to PM me.

It depends on you. However, this is not about "predicting" the future. The future, as I see it, is like a highway with many lanes, and exits. The choices you make, the lanes, and exits you take can determine the future of your own goals. You create your own future by these decisions, so what you are looking for is guidance, a "road report forecast," so to speak, that you can use for yourself to help you make better decisions.

Do you need to pay? Yes. I would not trust any professional astrologer who gives out "free personal reports." The work is difficult enough and takes time, and those who give away this for free do not know what they are doing. I wouldn't waste my time.
 
I was born with this mathematical skill and use it to help people the best I can. My clients know my work and I am satisfied with that.
You persist in vaguely alluding to mastery and skills... yet you steadfastly refuse to describe any specific techniques or benefits...

Please note that, on this forum, this is unlikely to convince anyone that you are anything other than a self-deluding liar
 
You are from England, right? Your own monarchs have employed astrologers, and some of the best known astrologers were from the U.K., which has a rich history of serious practicioners. The best known monarch who used astrology to destroy the Spanish Armada was Queen Elizabeth I.

I'm pretty sure there were some ships involved.
 
You persist in vaguely alluding to mastery and skills... yet you steadfastly refuse to describe any specific techniques or benefits...

Please note that, on this forum, this is unlikely to convince anyone that you are anything other than a self-deluding liar

Disagreeing with a person in a debate does not mean that they are a "self-deluding liar."

Your comments on the subject Six7s not only show a severe lack of any knowledge on this topic, but your manner and comments show a total lack of common courtesy, critical thinking, and even skepticism, which you weakly disguise through your rude tones, biases, and naked hostile attitudes. I am now going to put you on ignore since you cannot hold an intelligent discussion of this topic.

I suggest you first study the subject of Astrology since this subject has copious amounts of millions of serious texts written over many centuries from nearly all cultures.

After you have read and learned how to debate properly Six7s, then perhaps I will take you off my ignore list, but, for now, I suggest you clean up your language, and improve your attitude, while also learning how to debate with some knowledge of the topic that you say is crap but that you find so much interest in from your numerous posts.
 
You are from England, right? Your own monarchs have employed astrologers, and some of the best known astrologers were from the U.K., which has a rich history of serious practicioners. The best known monarch who used astrology to destroy the Spanish Armada was Queen Elizabeth I.

BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

No. The Spanish were defeated by vicious fighting as they tried to infiltrate England through the English Channel. Astrology had nothing to do with it. In fact, I'm pretty sure that astrology is not physically capable of harming someone, unless you count meteor swarm as an astrological spell.

As for personal readings, it depends on the person. Of the thousands of readings I've given, each one is different, as people have all kinds of issues, both personally and professionally. I could not tell you how to provide "evidence" for it as you would have to ask those people who have had my readings, and I don't give their personal information out.

Fine. Whatever. I respect that. Doctor-patient confidentiality and all that. But you can still give us a description of the techniques you use.

Most people, especially skeptics, don't have a clue as to what constitutes astrology in general to be able to form any opinion without actually studying serious astrology, not the junk kind you think is astrology, which is not.

THEN TELL US THE DIFFERENCE. Why is getting an answer out of you so hard?

There's a lot of charlatans and wannabees out there who don't know what they are doing and play on the fears of others for a buck. You will find that in all professions. Those who are so-called "astrologers" who do not know what they are doing are those who do not want to put in the long, hard years of study to actually perform a professional service that is very difficult because of the complexities of the work.

You will not find "evidence" or "proof" of Astrology in general in natal astrology. I've made this clear on another thread. It cannot be measured by conventional means. The same cannot be done using psychological means. How can you know for sure that a person is "happier" than they've been unless they tell you?

You can't. But you can tell if a prediction has come true or not. Which is what we are asking you to prove.

Complete waste of time. How can you test such things with the limited tools of conventional science. Scientists cannot even replicate weather conditions in a lab much less test the powers of the human mind. The Randi Foundation would be better to save its million or give it to charity to help people in these tough times.

The same bull, in short, that we have heard from countless other would-be millionaires. This is a pile of crap, Astro Teacher. Science may not have yet reached the level of Dune, but it can quite easily tell if a claim is true or not.
You go in, explain what you're going to do and how, the scientists set up a test, and you do whatever voodoo you do. Then they see if you succeeded. Not hard.

I don't do this for the money. Professional astrologers do get paid as all professionals do or they would not be professionals. I was born with this mathematical skill and use it to help people the best I can. My clients know my work and I am satisfied with that.

So you DO do it for the money.

It depends on you. However, this is not about "predicting" the future. The future, as I see it, is like a highway with many lanes, and exits. The choices you make, the lanes, and exits you take can determine the future of your own goals. You create your own future by these decisions, so what you are looking for is guidance, a "road report forecast," so to speak, that you can use for yourself to help you make better decisions.

Do you need to pay? Yes. I would not trust any professional astrologer who gives out "free personal reports." The work is difficult enough and takes time, and those who give away this for free do not know what they are doing. I wouldn't waste my time.

Wow, nice way to entirely avoid answering the question.
 
THEN TELL US THE DIFFERENCE. Why is getting an answer out of you so hard?

Wow, nice way to entirely avoid answering the question.
I suspect that Astro Teacher is less than forthcoming with answers for the simple reason that he/she has no idea what the questions entail
 
You are from England, right?

Right.

Your own monarchs have employed astrologers


The current royal family believe in homeopathy.

Telling me that this is something that British monarchs have, or do, believe in is an indication to me that it's likely to be rubbish, rather than the reverse.

You will not find "evidence" or "proof" of Astrology in general in natal astrology. I've made this clear on another thread. It cannot be measured by conventional means. The same cannot be done using psychological means. How can you know for sure that a person is "happier" than they've been unless they tell you?

And even then, are they really happy, or more successful because of treatment or just lying to cover up the fact that they are really depressed.

The best thing that can be done by the true professional astrologer is provide quality guidance for those who seek it but to understand that we all shape our own destinies by the choices or non-choices we make in life. It has always been this way and always will


Then how do you know that any of it is true? If, as you say, there is no way of getting proof or evidence, no way of telling if people are happier or more successful as a result of it, no way of measuring how effective it is, then how do you know it has any effect at all?

Put it this way: if there was no truth to the brand of astrology you practise whatsoever, what difference would you expect that to make to your clients? If none, then surely the obvious conclusion is that there is no truth to it? If you do expect to see a difference, then that difference should be observable and some evidence of that difference should therefore be obtainable.
 
Right.




The current royal family believe in homeopathy.

Telling me that this is something that British monarchs have, or do, believe in is an indication to me that it's likely to be rubbish, rather than the reverse.




Then how do you know that any of it is true? If, as you say, there is no way of getting proof or evidence, no way of telling if people are happier or more successful as a result of it, no way of measuring how effective it is, then how do you know it has any effect at all?

Put it this way: if there was no truth to the brand of astrology you practise whatsoever, what difference would you expect that to make to your clients? If none, then surely the obvious conclusion is that there is no truth to it? If you do expect to see a difference, then that difference should be observable and some evidence of that difference should therefore be obtainable.

My knowledge and belief comes from my own experiences as an astrologer. That's it. I do not care if anyone believes me or not - it is enough for me that I know what I know and I am just fine with that too.

Truth is something that is also personal. How can you prove the existence of love, or hate, or if a person is really happy or sad? How can you measure such things?

We know these things exist, though we cannot see them. Would you ask a person to "prove" that they "love" another person. How to do that? How to measure that?

These are metaphysical areas that even skeptics would do well to avoid because you will never be able to handle "natal astrology" in your hands and say see, "It is true."

All I know is that mathematical forces of angles and configurations have power in the world, as Galileo (an astrologer) Kepler (another astrologer) and Benjamin Franklin (another astrologer) knew existed. There is a mystical force operating in the world, and its language is mathematics.

Astrology is based on the cycles of mathematics. Algebra, Geometry, etc., were invented by astrologers. These are used to account for the many variables of astronomical motion relative to the earth. Variable mathematics is power, and knowledge of the potentials of the future, and of the past and present.

People will believe what they want. Some will swear by it, others will say it works but are stumped, and others say bull. All this depends on their own believe systems, biases, predetermined attitudes, positions, etc., etc. I mean, scientists once believed that the human body could not withstand train travel at 35 mph.

Scientists also once believed that rocks did not fall from space. Scientists and skeptics also believed that man would never achieve orbit in space. Scientists also believed that the world was once flat, not round. But who knew?
 
My knowledge and belief comes from my own experiences as an astrologer. That's it. I do not care if anyone believes me or not - it is enough for me that I know what I know and I am just fine with that too.

This is not a healthy outlook. "I'm fine with my delusion" is not conducive to a well-run life.

Truth is something that is also personal.

Bull.

How can you prove the existence of love, or hate, or if a person is really happy or sad? How can you measure such things?

You can't - not with the level of technology that we currently have. But all of these emotions can be detected by the chemical state of the brain.

We know these things exist, though we cannot see them. Would you ask a person to "prove" that they "love" another person. How to do that? How to measure that?

You can't prove 100% that you love someone. But you can give reasonable proof - you can say that you love them, spend your life with them, throw yourself in front of a bus for them. While all of these things could be done by someone pretending to be in love with you, it's much more likely that said person actually is.

These are metaphysical areas that even skeptics would do well to avoid because you will never be able to handle "natal astrology" in your hands and say see, "It is true."

All I know is that mathematical forces of angles and configurations have power in the world, as Galileo (an astrologer) Kepler (another astrologer) and Benjamin Franklin (another astrologer) knew existed. There is a mystical force operating in the world, and its language is mathematics.

If they do have such power, then you should be able to make a basic prediction about someone's future. I can send you information about my life in PM. Can you make a prediction for me? Or will you do the same thing that you did with Starthinker and avoid any attempt to validate your claims?
If you actually DO make a successful prediction, Astro Teacher, then I will be at the front of the crowd singing your praises. But unless you do so - if you continue to spout nonsense with no evidence - then I'll just stay over here and throw peanuts.

Astrology is based on the cycles of mathematics. Algebra, Geometry, etc., were invented by astrologers.

No.

These are used to account for the many variables of astronomical motion relative to the earth.

If astrology utilizes mathematics, that means that astrology is based on mathematics, not the other way around.

Variable mathematics is power, and knowledge of the potentials of the future, and of the past and present.

Nonsense, duly ignored.

People will believe what they want. Some will swear by it, others will say it works but are stumped, and others say bull. All this depends on their own believe systems, biases, predetermined attitudes, positions, etc., etc. I mean, scientists once believed that the human body could not withstand train travel at 35 mph.

...and they believed that they had valid medical reasons for this belief. And when they were shown that the human body COULD withstand these speeds, they retracted their statements. If you can show the truth of your claims, we will do the same.

Scientists also once believed that rocks did not fall from space. Scientists and skeptics also believed that man would never achieve orbit in space. Scientists also believed that the world was once flat, not round. But who knew?

This is because no one was able to verify the claims that they did, or could, or would. When the claims were verified through experimentation, they changed their positions.
THAT is what "skeptic" means, Astro Teacher. We are willing to accept your claims. However, before we do so, we require hard evidence as to their truth. If you can provide this evidence, then we will believe you. Otherwise, we are forced to dismiss you as another delusional woo believer.
 
People will believe what they want. Some will swear by it, others will say it works but are stumped, and others say bull. All this depends on their own believe systems, biases, predetermined attitudes, positions, etc., etc. I mean, scientists once believed that the human body could not withstand train travel at 35 mph.

Scientists also once believed that rocks did not fall from space. Scientists and skeptics also believed that man would never achieve orbit in space. Scientists also believed that the world was once flat, not round. But who knew?

Thankfully, those ignorant scientists were shown the truth by the awesome power of astrology.
 
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I suspect that Astro Teacher is less than forthcoming with answers for the simple reason that he/she has no idea what the questions entail

I suspect that he/she has no idea what he/she is talking about, and is afraid to answer the questions because they would expose that fact.
Astro Teacher is the one going on and on about the differences between fake astrology and his/her astrology. So he/she should be able to give us at least one difference.
 
All I know is that mathematical forces of angles and configurations have power in the world, as Galileo (an astrologer) Kepler (another astrologer) and Benjamin Franklin (another astrologer) knew existed.

So your argument in favour of astrology is that things known to famous scientists through history cannot be incorrect...

Scientists also once believed that rocks did not fall from space. Scientists and skeptics also believed that man would never achieve orbit in space. Scientists also believed that the world was once flat, not round. But who knew?

...but also that things known to famous scientists through history are quite often incorrect.

Which of these contradictory beliefs does your own horoscope suggest you're more likely to hold?

Dave
 
So your argument in favour of astrology is that things known to famous scientists through history cannot be incorrect...



...but also that things known to famous scientists through history are quite often incorrect.

Which of these contradictory beliefs does your own horoscope suggest you're more likely to hold?

Dave

There is nothing "contradictory" here. It is all in your own mind.
 

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