How do you guys explain really bizarre cases of synchronicity?

[Skeptical Greg]

What unlikely coincidences are you referring to, and why are they unlikely ?

 

[Rodney]

What unlikely coincidences are you referring to, and why are they unlikely?

For example, the one reported by Teapots Happen. Read his account (I'm assuming it's accurate), and tell me whether you think it was likely or unlikely. If you think likely, please explain why.

 

[Skeptical Greg]

Likely .
That was explained earlier in this thread .
The short version, is that it was a very common sort of tea pot ..

Any more ?

 

[fls]

Can you explain why s/he should, and why this would happen in clusters?

Attention. For example (I realize that this particular example will not apply to you, but trust me, it's real ), as soon as you discover you are pregnant, you run across pregnant women every where you go, even though there were hardly any around before.

It frequently occurs to me that most people on this forum are desperate to dismiss unlikely coincidences for fear that they might have to re-think their worldviews.

I've always found it odd that when presented with a group a people who re-think their worldviews on an almost daily basis when challenged by evidence vs. a group of people who cling to hundred-year-old ideas against reason and evidence, that it is the former group you choose to characterize as fearful of change.

Linda

 

[Rodney]

Likely .
That was explained earlier in this thread .
The short version, is that it was a very common sort of tea pot ..

"Explained" - then completely refuted by Teapots Happen.

Any more ?

Billions and billions.

 

[Rodney]

Attention. For example (I realize that this particular example will not apply to you, but trust me, it's real ), as soon as you discover you are pregnant, you run across pregnant women every where you go, even though there were hardly any around before.

How does that apply to, for example, Teapots Happen's coincidence?

I've always found it odd that when presented with a group a people who re-think their worldviews on an almost daily basis when challenged by evidence vs. a group of people who cling to hundred-year-old ideas against reason and evidence, that it is the former group you choose to characterize as fearful of change.

I would suggest you read some of the threads on this forum a little more carefully, including this one, if you think most people here are re-thinking their worldviews on even an annual basis.

 

[Marshmallow]

Can you explain why s/he should, and why this would happen in clusters?

\

Exactly. I can't think of any naturalistic reason for why this would happen in clusters. And for the record, when this stuff happens to me, it's usually with stuff that's more significant and/or personally meaningful than blue butterflies. That was just an example.

Can anyone tell me why significant things like this would happen in clusters with unrelated causes?

 

[fls]

How does that apply to, for example, Teapots Happen's coincidence?

Digging up a teapot, or any other sighting of the same or similar teapot under other circumstances would be very much more likely to be made note of.

I would suggest you read some of the threads on this forum a little more carefully, including this one, if you think most people here are re-thinking their worldviews on even an annual basis.

Oh, did someone present evidence in this thread? I missed it, I guess.

Linda

 

[fls]

\

Exactly. I can't think of any naturalistic reason for why this would happen in clusters.

Really? It should happen in clusters. That's exactly what you'd expect. You are more likely to notice something if you have recently seen something similar somewhere else.

And for the record, when this stuff happens to me, it's usually with stuff that's more significant and/or personally meaningful than blue butterflies. That was just an example.

You should notice it with more meaningful or more significant stuff. That's exactly what you'd expect.

Can anyone tell me why significant things like this would happen in clusters with unrelated causes?

Because we make note of things that happen in clusters and pay no or little attention to things that don't. People mistakenly think that random means that events will be distributed evenly. Instead, clusters are common.

Linda

 

[fromdownunder]

\

Can anyone tell me why significant things like this would happen in clusters with unrelated causes?

How significant is two identical teapots, other than making the poster think that synchrosity exists? If nothing further ever comes from it (other than a belief in synchrosity) it has no significance whatsoever.

I have given several personal examples on this thread, which I shrugged off as coincidence (remember that word). Because they were. If the odds of something happening to somebody are six billion to one, this event will happen to somebody, on average, once a day, every day of the week. That's pretty much it.

Two identical teapots which have no further significance other than making a person believe in synchrosity? What a waste of a "Universal whatever" Why did this happen? Why did this happen to ME? Well, it had to happen to somebody even if the odds can be calculated, even if they are Six Billion to One.

I believe the only reason some people here think that the teapots episode is significant (after all, there is no follow up, and I expect that Two Teapots is waiting for "the big result" - which may/never come - he inferred this himself in response to one of my posts) is because of the potential odds. That argument has already been totalled, if only by the pack of cards and coin tossing odds.

Norm

 

[DevilsAdvocate]

Exactly. I can't think of any naturalistic reason for why this would happen in clusters. And for the record, when this stuff happens to me, it's usually with stuff that's more significant and/or personally meaningful than blue butterflies. That was just an example.

Can anyone tell me why significant things like this would happen in clusters with unrelated causes?

Sure. For example, when I buy a new car that is a model that I’m not familiar with, I suddenly start seeing the exact same model everywhere. I never knew the model existed. But after I buy one, I suddenly see the same exact model everywhere--on the streets, parking lots, movies, television, magazines, it comes up in conversation. After a while, I don’t see them so much.

Why? Well, I was actually seeing and hearing about that model of car at the same frequency the whole time. Before I bought the car, when I would see one I would just remember it as a “car” and not a “Model X” car because I don’t care exactly what the model is for every car I see—the model is insignificant.

Once I bought a “Model X”, then “Model X” becomes significant to me. Now my brain is looking for information about “Model X”. So when I see cars, my brain just registers them as “car”, unless it is a “Model X” in which case it stores a bunch of information about the incident to start building data about “Model X”. So my brain starts registering “Model X” all over the place. After a while, my brain has collected a whole bunch of information about “Model X”. Most of the specific information about each incident of “Model X’ was not needed. So my brain starts to just save general information related to “Model X” that it has already established.

So I first didn’t notice Model X because I just noticed car. When Model X became significant to me, I started noticing Model X everywhere. After a while I got used to Model X and stopped noticing so much. The result is a “cluster” of “noticing” after the subject becomes “significant”.

 

[Marshmallow]

How significant is two identical teapots, other than making the poster think that synchrosity exists? If nothing further ever comes from it (other than a belief in synchrosity) it has no significance whatsoever.
Norm

I wasn't talking about two identical teapots. I was talking about when there are at least four or five occurrences of the synchronicity in a row (please see my example above. Also, sometimes these things do lead to significant life changes.

 

[Marshmallow]

Sure. For example, when I buy a new car that is a model that I’m not familiar with, I suddenly start seeing the exact same model everywhere. I never knew the model existed. But after I buy one, I suddenly see the same exact model everywhere--on the streets, parking lots, movies, television, magazines, it comes up in conversation. After a while, I don’t see them so much.

Why? Well, I was actually seeing and hearing about that model of car at the same frequency the whole time. Before I bought the car, when I would see one I would just remember it as a “car” and not a “Model X” car because I don’t care exactly what the model is for every car I see—the model is insignificant.

Once I bought a “Model X”, then “Model X” becomes significant to me. Now my brain is looking for information about “Model X”. So when I see cars, my brain just registers them as “car”, unless it is a “Model X” in which case it stores a bunch of information about the incident to start building data about “Model X”. So my brain starts registering “Model X” all over the place. After a while, my brain has collected a whole bunch of information about “Model X”. Most of the specific information about each incident of “Model X’ was not needed. So my brain starts to just save general information related to “Model X” that it has already established.

So I first didn’t notice Model X because I just noticed car. When Model X became significant to me, I started noticing Model X everywhere. After a while I got used to Model X and stopped noticing so much. The result is a “cluster” of “noticing” after the subject becomes “significant”.

I understand what you're saying, and I agree that lots of synchronicity can be successfully explained away like this. However, there are some events that are a little too difficult to shake off. What about when it's something a lot rarer than a car model that's found everywhere?

 

[fromdownunder]

I wasn't talking about two identical teapots. I was talking about when there are at least four or five occurrences of the synchronicity in a row (please see my example above. Also, sometimes these things do lead to significant life changes.

OK, you appear to have accepted that the teapots are not synchrosity. So, how has your example of blue butterflies changed your life? If that is not your example, please cite one, with evidence that is not the subjective view of the person who decided that synchrosity actually happens. One will do.

norm

 

[Puppycow]

There are plenty of examples of meaningful coincidences occurring, and I have experienced them myself. In one case, even a highly skeptical friend had to admit that there was probably something paranormal going on.

Do a quick web search and you'll see mountains of anecdotal evidence (I'm a newbie, so I can't post links yet). Some things are too timely and specific for me to dismiss as mere coincidence, including things I've experienced myself. How do you rationalize things that are so far outside of the laws of probability?

Note: I admit that many of these occurrences are, in fact, mere coincidences, but nowhere near all of them.

Because while "million-to-one" or "billion-to-one" coincidences necessarily happen all the time, it is impossible to consistently predict in advance which ones will happen in the near future, although it is easy to predict that some sort of strange coincidences are going to happen.

Any time you look at things in hindsight, you will find that an incredibly unlikely series of events was necessary to get to exactly where we are now. If just one thing of infinite things in the past had happened differently the course of future events may have been significantly altered.

Suppose that JFK's assassin had missed. Suppose that Ronald Reagan's assassin had hit a vital spot. Suppose that Hitler had died in childhood of some accident. And these are just more obvious examples.

 

[Marshmallow]

OK, you appear to have accepted that the teapots are not synchrosity. So, how has your example of blue butterflies changed your life? If that is not your example, please cite one, with evidence.

norm

I would, but as I stated at the beginning of this thread, my examples are way too personal to share on an Internet forum. I'm sorry for the inconvenience, but it's true. If you do a quick Google search, I'm sure you'll find many specific examples. I have read quite a few myself.

And yes, I admit that two matching teapots do not necessarily imply synchronicity. What I'm interested in are the examples where there are more than two coincidences in a row (such as the butterfly example).

By the way, even if the blue butterflies didn't change someone's life, how would you explain such an event naturalistically, or statistically?

Synchronicity is one of the few things keeping me from accepting an entirely naturalistic worldview.

 

[fls]

By the way, even if the blue butterflies didn't change someone's life, how would you explain such an event naturalistically, or statistically?

Because statistically, this is exactly what we expect to happen. It would be very strange and inexplicable if you didn't see clusters, from a naturalistic perspective.

Linda

 

[fromdownunder]

By the way, even if the blue butterflies didn't change someone's life, how would you explain such an event naturalistically, or statistically?

Coincidence. Remeber 6 Billion to One odds? It's gonna happen to somebody every day of the week. If you are specifically interested in Butterflies, then you will notice them more. If not, then you might see one, two, three four and not even care or remember.

I think that the statistical argument has already been fully discussed. Look at the odds of turning up a pack of cards, or twenty coin tosses in a particular order - any event is equally unlikely.

Norm

 

[DevilsAdvocate]

I understand what you're saying, and I agree that lots of synchronicity can be successfully explained away like this. However, there are some events that are a little too difficult to shake off. What about when it's something a lot rarer than a car model that's found everywhere?

It is the same thing. I’ve owned some rare car models, including an antique British sports car from the 1950s. The same thing happens every time—just in differing degrees based on the rarity.

And popular influence can affect occurrence as well. Many years ago I had some friends that moved into a new apartment. They got a magazine addressed to “resident”. It was a catalog for very, very high-end things. I guessed that the previous resident liked very, very fine sheets, because those were the cheapest things they had. But the catalog had all kinds of things at ridiculous prices. It did have high quality products, but most just looked like WAY overpriced stuff for rich people to brag about what ridiculous amounts they had spent for every day DESIGNER things.

We focused on a bench for $50,000. It was a simple wood bench like you might see in a park. Although it did have a small bit of a particular style, it was simple and just some wood planks with legs. You could buy a similar bench or build an exact copy yourself for about $200. We thought the idea that someone would pay $50,000 for a $200 bench was silly and that nobody would buy such a thing.

Within the next few weeks we saw the EXACT ridiculously expensive bench in a commercial, a movie, and a hotel lobby. I had never seen one before or since.

Of course I don’t know if I actually had seen one before it became “significant” to me. The reason it suddenly showed up was apparently because it was the richest hippest bench going, so if someone needed a bench and wanted to portray that they were rich and hip they used the ridiculously overpriced bench that was out there. Next season, they move to a new richest hippest bench.

Rare things are common when you look for them or they are in style.

 

[Bob from NJ]

I think that has to be the response to every example given. The classic example is you answer a ringing phone only to find it's the person you were just thinking of on the other end. Amazing, right? Maybe, until you think about how many times you think about someone and they don't call, and how many times you pick up the phone and it isn't the person you were just thinking about.

I had a similar thing with lightbulbs blowing out. For several years (recently) I KNEW every time a bulb was going to blow out, as soon as I touched the switch but before I flicked it on. A spiritual-minded friend said this happened because I was manifesting negative energy.

Well, I believed this quasi-magical idea for years, but now I think I understand what was truly happening. First, it must have happened several times to make me notice the coincidence. Thereafter, EVERY time I turned on a light switch the thought would be in the back of my mind "will it blow out like last time?" I'd be expecting it every time so when a bulb blew out I was guaranteed to be thinking it would beforehand. The times it didn't happen I just ignored. (EXACTLY what this thread's about)

I've been keeping track (kinda keeping track) of when things DON'T happen- such as the oncoming car that's 'always' in just the wrong spot when I go to turn onto the main road from my street and delays me every time; seems to happen every single day- well, months went by with this only happening twice. Every day I'd notice when it DIDN'T happen.

As for the 'negative energy'? Well, that part was true in a sense. I was very pessimistic, believing that the world was cursed. I tried to be more optimistic and realistic, so her mystical statement may actually have helped nudge me towards skepticism and more rational thinking.

Please, please, PLEASE keep humbly de-bunking things like this.