Moderated What's wrong with porn?

[quadraginta]

Don't forget the eating “poop” fetish. Why he introduced that into the discussion totally mystifies me.

As with many other comments he has made, the words "repressed" and "denial" come to mind.

 

[JFrankA]

You're welcome.

If that *is* what this is, then I think at the very least this would be a good example of some of the dangers of porn when in the wrong hands. Of course, if porn didn't "do it", something else would--it strikes me that people with this attitude probably think that an abused woman "deserves it" because she isn't "worthy" of respect...but this type of attitude scares me for women.

I agree.

My guy would *never* allow me to be around someone with that kind of attitude...no matter how much my guy at times indeed does objectify me (by mutual consent). I have been in one relationship with a guy like that (early on), and I know a few women in relationships and marriages with men like that, and aside from them being miserable, I get the impression that they are so stifled as people that they're almost suffocating. Dying a slow death, so to speak.

For a while, it might be "easy" to go along with someone who feels that way, but long term, I've seen nothing but misery and abuse come from it. And it's so sad.

But again I'll say that I *hope* that isn't what this is.

I'm in a Male Dominate/Female submissive relationship with my girlfriend as well, and of course it involves the same fetish as the porn I produce. The first thing I learned as a Dom, (and all Doms should know) is that no matter what fetish one may be involved in, you always keep your respect for your partner.

I don't know why that even has to be stated. If you love and care for someone, I would expect that the respect is automatic no matter what they do for a profession.

Now in the case where "Male" doesn't know "Female", yet "Female" is willing to do a film that "Male" finds sexually arousing that not many other females would be filmed doing, I can't understand how "Male" can not respect "Female".

Which brings me to this question: If "Male" doesn't respect "Female" with the above conditions, and they meet, does "Male" feel like he can do whatever he wishes to "Female" because she doesn't deserve any respect?

 

[MontagK505]

Quadraginta: post #601. I honesty hope you're wrong. That kind of repression would truly worry me.

 

[JFrankA]

Don't forget the eating “poop” fetish. Why he introduced that into the discussion totally mystifies me.

Just to be clear, it wasn't me, and the fetish I produce doesn't involve poop or pee...

 

[MontagK505]

Just to be clear, it wasn't me, and the fetish I produce doesn't involve poop or pee...

Thank You!

 

[sugarb]

I agree.



I'm in a Male Dominate/Female submissive relationship with my girlfriend as well, and of course it involves the same fetish as the porn I produce. The first thing I learned as a Dom, (and all Doms should know) is that no matter what fetish one may be involved in, you always keep your respect for your partner.

I don't know why that even has to be stated. If you love and care for someone, I would expect that the respect is automatic no matter what they do for a profession.

Now in the case where "Male" doesn't know "Female", yet "Female" is willing to do a film that "Male" finds sexually arousing that not many other females would be filmed doing, I can't understand how "Male" can not respect "Female".

Which brings me to this question: If "Male" doesn't respect "Female" with the above conditions, and they meet, does "Male" feel like he can do whatever he wishes to "Female" because she doesn't deserve any respect?

Perhaps he does, JFrankA. Perhaps he does. That is why I think it would be important, in making those kinds of films, for someone to be there that understands how the dynamics work.

You know as well as I do that, in the now mainstream "lifestyle" play, there are many dominants, male AND female, that have EXACTLY the attitude you describe. The submissive is a "thing"...the person with them that does not know them HAS TO, because they don't know them, feel that it must be okay to do anything to them. As I see it, in any setting other than pure acting, it would be a horribly stupid submissive that would subject her or himself to a stranger. And a horribly stupid dominant that would allow a stranger to "use" his submissive without supervision.

My guy respects me. He spoils the heck out of me, actually. I am a very lucky girl. But I think what many people fail to see when it comes to Dom/sub stuff is that those wonderfully delicious acts (lol, egads that'll make the poop eaters come to mind, LOL) wouldn't be delicious at all if the dynamics of the mind weren't involved. In that way, I don't know what kinds of films you produce, but I would hope that they would involve at least some of that mental preparation aspect, and care afterward. I sometimes wonder if people unaware of what it is that we do would view it differently if they could see the same things we see, beyond the physical acts.

 

[MontagK505]

Perhaps he does, JFrankA. Perhaps he does. That is why I think it would be important, in making those kinds of films, for someone to be there that understands how the dynamics work.

You know as well as I do that, in the now mainstream "lifestyle" play, there are many dominants, male AND female, that have EXACTLY the attitude you describe. The submissive is a "thing"...the person with them that does not know them HAS TO, because they don't know them, feel that it must be okay to do anything to them. As I see it, in any setting other than pure acting, it would be a horribly stupid submissive that would subject her or himself to a stranger. And a horribly stupid dominant that would allow a stranger to "use" his submissive without supervision.

My guy respects me. He spoils the heck out of me, actually. I am a very lucky girl. But I think what many people fail to see when it comes to Dom/sub stuff is that those wonderfully delicious acts (lol, egads that'll make the poop eaters come to mind, LOL) wouldn't be delicious at all if the dynamics of the mind weren't involved. In that way, I don't know what kinds of films you produce, but I would hope that they would involve at least some of that mental preparation aspect, and care afterward. I sometimes wonder if people unaware of what it is that we do would view it differently if they could see the same things we see, beyond the physical acts.

I've heard that being submissive is some times used as an expression of trust.
Does that ring a bell?

 

[JFrankA]

I've heard that being submissive is some times used as an expression of trust.
Does that ring a bell?

More than rings a bell. More than sometimes. It is THE gift from a submissive.

 

[JFrankA]

Perhaps he does, JFrankA. Perhaps he does. That is why I think it would be important, in making those kinds of films, for someone to be there that understands how the dynamics work.

Shooting porn is much like doing a BDSM scene: the actors' and actress' comfort, state of mind and happiness is of utmost importance for doing a shoot. And in a sense, there's foreplay, during play and afterplay. This makes perfect sense: you don't treat your models, you don't get those models back, you get a terrible shoot, and those models will not recommend you to other models. And believe me, if you treat your models badly - word travels fast.

You know as well as I do that, in the now mainstream "lifestyle" play, there are many dominants, male AND female, that have EXACTLY the attitude you describe. The submissive is a "thing"...the person with them that does not know them HAS TO, because they don't know them, feel that it must be okay to do anything to them. As I see it, in any setting other than pure acting, it would be a horribly stupid submissive that would subject her or himself to a stranger. And a horribly stupid dominant that would allow a stranger to "use" his submissive without supervision.

I've always seen submission to me as a gift. It's something I have to earn. Now that may not sound very "Dom-like" but I've always felt that a Dom's power is stronger when the submissive wants to "obey", for lack of a better word, rather than forced to.

My guy respects me. He spoils the heck out of me, actually. I am a very lucky girl. But I think what many people fail to see when it comes to Dom/sub stuff is that those wonderfully delicious acts (lol, egads that'll make the poop eaters come to mind, LOL) wouldn't be delicious at all if the dynamics of the mind weren't involved. In that way, I don't know what kinds of films you produce, but I would hope that they would involve at least some of that mental preparation aspect, and care afterward. I sometimes wonder if people unaware of what it is that we do would view it differently if they could see the same things we see, beyond the physical acts.

I've always said that a Dom's job is to drive the car, but a sub is the one holding the map. I've met many Doms who tell me that I'm not a true Dom because I do so much for my girlfriend. I write her porn and love letters, I've made her a special yoke, etc, etc. I do it because she is more than just a submissive object for my pleasure. If she is not happy, if she doesn't want to be submissive to me, then I've lost something incredibly wonderful.

 

[MontagK505]

As a matter of information my hobby is photographing women. I'm a DOMWC, (Dirty Old Man With Camera) and I've always treated my models with respect.

I always discuss before hand what kind of photoshoot we're going to do etc. Most of the stuff I do is cheese-cake with some art/erotic type nudes. And I've done some masturbation videos (solo acts). Sometimes, I get models that are actually eager to get out of their clothes.

This is why I find Southwinds attitude on this issue perplexing.

 

[tesscaline]

More than rings a bell. More than sometimes. It is THE gift from a submissive.

Speaking as a submissive, let me just echo how true this is.

 

[Toke]

Don't forget the eating “poop” fetish. Why he introduced that into the discussion totally mystifies me.

Maybe he likes Japanese porn?

 

[Southwind17]

Good afternoon, Southwind17.

Good morning

Or...are you one of those people that believes that certain kinds of pornography lead to more sex crimes and social depravity?

There was a long lead up to this question (which I interpreted as the first non-rhetorical question in your post) - some of which I construced as relevant to the key issue, namely respect, some of which not. To answer your question - no I'm not, and that's simply because I have no data to go on.

I also have another question, and yeah, it is mainly curiosity...but why do you seem to loathe these women more than you pity them? If you really believe they are somehow stuck in a harmful sort of behavior? I don't think the idea of pity has been brought up yet, so that's kind of an interesting thing to know, for me. When I'm repulsed by something, or someone, I immediately do feel a sense of sorrow, moreso than anger or indignation.

First, I never stated, and I don't, loathe porn actresses. Moreover, I don't believe they're necessarily harming themselves, although probably exposing themselves to STDs more than they might otherwise. Second, I simply don't have much respect for some of them, depending on what they are prepared to do and have published. I don't pity them generally (some I do, namely those who find themselves involved in porn due to circumstances when they really don't wish to be, and I'm sure there are many). They've willingly made the choice to behave the way they do, and I'll judge them accordingly.

One more question, if I may (sorry for so many). Do you watch the types of films you are talking about? Have you? If so, seeing as how they repulse you, how did you come to view them?

That's sneaky - that's three more questions! In order:

1. Yes - occasionally
2. Yes - occasionally
3. First, they don't repulse me. As I wrote above, I simply have varying degrees of disrespect for them depending on what they're prepared to do and have published. One can disrespect something and not be repulsed by it. On the contrary. I'd like nothing more than to take a Yamaha R1 motorcycle round a race track and thrash the proverbials off it beyong its design limits, notwithstanding the great respect I have for the engineering marvel that it represents and the people that have contributed to its creation. Second, I sought them out.

Enjoy your day sugarb.

 

[sugarb]

Good morning


There was a long lead up to this question (which I interpreted as the first non-rhetorical question in your post) - some of which I construced as relevant to the key issue, namely respect, some of which not. To answer your question - no I'm not, and that's simply because I have no data to go on.


First, I never stated, and I don't, loathe porn actresses. Moreover, I don't believe they're necessarily harming themselves, although probably exposing themselves to STDs more than they might otherwise. Second, I simply don't have much respect for some of them, depending on what they are prepared to do and have published. I don't pity them generally (some I do, namely those who find themselves involved in porn due to circumstances when they really don't wish to be, and I'm sure there are many). They've willingly made the choice to behave the way they do, and I'll judge them accordingly.


That's sneaky - that's three more questions! In order:

1. Yes - occasionally
2. Yes - occasionally
3. First, they don't repulse me. As I wrote above, I simply have varying degrees of disrespect for them depending on what they're prepared to do and have published. One can disrespect something and not be repulsed by it. On the contrary. I'd like nothing more than to take a Yamaha R1 motorcycle round a race track and thrash the proverbials off it beyong its design limits, notwithstanding the great respect I have for the engineering marvel that it represents and the people that have contributed to its creation. Second, I sought them out.

Enjoy your day sugarb.

Okay, then please accept my apologies for having the wrong impression.

And don't go destroying yamahas. That would just be...wrong.

 

[Southwind17]

I agree. And I think we're getting tangled up in the terminology. But what do you mean by "active behavior" and "passive behavior" in the context of a porn film? (Going back to the example of watersports)

First, active behaviour in a general context would include willingly and knowingly involving oneself in a local racist movement, for example. Passive behaviour in a general context would include not joining the local anti-racist movement. In the context of porn acting, therefore, all behaviour is active, whether at the porn-per-se level or a subset thereof (assuming it's fully consensual, of course).

I don't. That's the point. I find the idea of drinking urine disgusting (or drinking cum). But other people do it and I have no problem with that, nor see it reasonable to think less of them because of it.

I was jesting with you. But you make a point in response anyhow, which actually misses the point. Perhaps this can be addressed by your answering this: Is it just the taste of those fluids that you find disgusting or something else? If it's something else, what, exactly, is it that you find disgusting? Please be as explicit as reasonably possible, because I suspect the devil's most definitely in the detail here.

Does that mean you're "not interested in even finding out more about the person" and thus you will simply put them in your black list?

You've misunderstood and hence quoted me out of context here Ron. When I wrote:

I couldn't be bothered to check, but I'd be interested to learn how many people you've judged on this very forum simply because they're Truthers, CTists, pro-homeopathists and the like. Please get down off your high horse too Ron.

the subject of the "check[ing]" was your judging, as emphasised above. Do you see now?

So you're already assuming that I've judged other people here because they're truthers and homeopaths without even knowing that for sure? You're already assuming that as if it was a fact?
And I am the one who has to get off my high horse?

I didn't express any assumption whatsoever. I wrote "I'd be interested to learn ..." (see above). The number might well be zero. But I confess there's a clear implied assumption in what I wrote, and that's because I'd bet the farm that my assumption is correct. Why? Because your stated position regarding people having to "earn" respect clearly shows that you're a dogmatist, and hence you pre-judge. I don't need to check!

(And for the record, no. I do not make assumptions about people, and even much less when on a forum, where you have no idea who the person behind the screen really is. And that includes you. No matter how negative and pedant your attitude has been all along this thread, I can't even draw a conclusion about who you really are)

That's the problem you see - "who you really are". You will never know who anybody "really is", even your nearest and dearest, so at what point do you feel able to judge? You (by which I also mean "one") subconsciously judge people from the first moment you meet them and it continues from there.

Is that supposed to mean anything in regards to the quote you're "responding" to or do you just put that phrase whenever you like as a fun tag line? If not, please explain what your real opinion is about what I said. Don't just throw a random, nonsense line cause it's meaningless.

My point is that there are always exceptions, and most people realize that. There's no need to try to cover it off with chapter and verse. Try succinct phrases like "generally", "subject to", "provided" and "depending on". That's what such words and phrases are for!

I bet you can't explain to me why that sits at the top off your nonsense scale. Care to elaborate?

You "bet"! You must be a very poor man Ron. You justify losing respect for somebody just because they lose respect for you! Where's the logic in or rationale for that?
For example, would Jeffrey Dahmer be justified in having little or no respect for you just because you have little or no respect for him (I assume that's the case, but, as you pointed out, I would be wrong to assume!)

Of course. If a stranger sits next to me and starts treating me like crap, he's certainly losing my respect, don't you think?. I'm not saying he has to "actively do something" to earn it. He already had.
Let me explain: You seem to be implying that what I said is that every single human on this planet already has no respect of mine and they have to earn it. That is not what I said. It's the exact opposite: If a stranger sits next to me, they are perfectly fine with me until (and if) they decide to disrespect me or attack me in some verbal or physical way. Then, if they do that, they have lost my respect. Until then, they had it.

Your logic (or lack of) Ron never ceases to amaze me. He's already earned your respect? So what on earth do you think "earn" actually means?!

 

[Southwind17]

It's okay. Throwing raw meat at trolls is an honorable and popular pastime. I just rarely see it done for so long, by so many people at the same time, with such subtlety.

I wonder why that is, then.

 

[Southwind17]

JFrankA, you're a jewel, thank you.

Though that's one of the fetishes I find disturbing. Truly objectifying women, with no respect for their person.

And thank you. I love being called a jewel by women.

 

[Southwind17]

Though that's one of the fetishes I find disturbing. Truly objectifying women, with no respect for their person.

Hang on a second. That's not a fetish by any stretch of the imagination. That's exactly what a lot of porn serves, if not sets out, to do. Not all porn, I admit, but a lot of porn.
And good old St Paul here supports it, nay, relishes in it (relish/in it - now there's an idea JFrankA!):

And thank you. I love being called a jewel by women.

 

[Southwind17]

If that *is* what this is, then I think at the very least this would be a good example of some of the dangers of porn when in the wrong hands. Of course, if porn didn't "do it", something else would--it strikes me that people with this attitude probably think that an abused woman "deserves it" because she isn't "worthy" of respect...but this type of attitude scares me for women. My guy would *never* allow me to be around someone with that kind of attitude...no matter how much my guy at times indeed does objectify me (by mutual consent) [emphasis added for incredulity]. I have been in one relationship with a guy like that (early on), and I know a few women in relationships and marriages with men like that, and aside from them being miserable, I get the impression that they are so stifled as people that they're almost suffocating. Dying a slow death, so to speak.

Please tell me I'm imagining this!

 

[Southwind17]

Don't forget the eating “poop” fetish. Why he introduced that into the discussion totally mystifies me.

To make a point, that's all, you can relax!