Mac vs PC

[not daSkeptic]

I don't know about the motivations behind the criticisms ...

I don't mean to imply the motivation is conscious. I doubt there are many who actively think, "Oh, hey, Apple isn't interested in my business. They suck." It's more that some feel Apple isn't catering to their desires, and while they're correct they fail to realize that it's intentional. They seem to think Apple's failure to make a certain type of product means there's something wrong with Apple, when in fact it's just not what they do. It's a bit like getting upset at Denny's for not making cars. An extreme example I admit, but I think it illustrates the point. It's simply not their business.

 

[uruk]

This is in fact the point I've been trying to get across. Apple doesn't afford their customers the same configurability as other computer makers because, quite simply, that isn't their business. They are not trying to make the same kind of product. Like Nintendo, SCE, or SGI, they manufacture fixed or limited-configuration systems intended for certain uses and classes of consumers.

The benefit of that is that there is a tight relationship between the hardware and software which makes for a really reliable computer system. It is easier for the designers and developers to make a relativly problem free computer when your configuration is set and limited. But then you are not all things to all people.

You may begin to understand Microsoft's dilemma when you have to write an OS that covers as many configurations as humanly possible and still have to deal with backward compatability issues.

To me, it is a miracle that the Windows OS runs at all, more so, as well as it runs now. I've been using Win7 for several months now and I am impressed.

But I think GrenME put it better.

 

[Policenaut]

I don't mean to imply the motivation is conscious. I doubt there are many who actively think, "Oh, hey, Apple isn't interested in my business. They suck." It's more that some feel Apple isn't catering to their desires, and while they're correct they fail to realize that it's intentional. They seem to think Apple's failure to make a certain type of product means there's something wrong with Apple, when in fact it's just not what they do. It's a bit like getting upset at Denny's for not making cars. An extreme example I admit, but I think it illustrates the point. It's simply not their business.

Apple could clean up by making a cheap (sub $500) netbook but they do not. Why is this? The rumor is they are making a giant touchscreen device. This has zero appeal to me but I guess they think there is a demand for such a device (oversized iTouch). Do they realize that people are clamoring for them to make a netbook? Enough that a community is set up solely to make hacks to run Apple's OS on various netbooks.

 

[not daSkeptic]

The benefit of that is that there is a tight relationship between the hardware and software which makes for a really reliable computer system. It is easier for the designers and developers to make a relativly problem free computer when your configuration is set and limited. But then you are not all things to all people.

Absolutely. It's a classic business trade-off: volume or quality. Do you sell a lot of mediocre products at low prices or a lesser number of excellent products at high prices? Neither approach is inherently better or worse than the other. Each has its risks and each can make a lot of money. It's really a value judgement.

 

[fullflavormenthol]

I think for me the needs are different. Apple gives me a platform I know I will be able to use for years with the Adobe and Autodesk line of products, while with a build it myself PC I really have to think about it. With Bootcamp and Apple's use of the nvidia cards I can now use 3ds Max on the system. After that happened I converted my previous PC into a Ubuntu Studio system, mainly for the audio production aspects of what I do.

Nevertheless both are good in the right hands. For some artists a paint brush and a canvas is the standard, for others a koosh ball and a piece of drywall will produce a masterpiece. It is all relative to the user. For example my father swears by Windows PC's, but my mother loves the Mac I gave to her.

In the end price is trumped by piece of mind, and what gives you that piece of mind depends on you. For me OS X is my system for most things, because I am actually good with the stuff most users don't get into, but I am able to use Windows without a thought. I pay for the piece of mind, but for a person that really loves the construction and configuration side nothing beats Windows.

Without offending anyone here. OSX is my artist side, Windows PC is my engineering side.

 

[GreNME]

I think for me the needs are different. Apple gives me a platform I know I will be able to use for years with the Adobe and Autodesk line of products, while with a build it myself PC I really have to think about it.

Autodesk what? Far as I knew they didn't make AutoCAD for the Mac. Revit?

Without offending anyone here. OSX is my artist side, Windows PC is my engineering side.

I can understand this. I happen to feel differently, almost to the opposite, but I understand it. When I was younger and learning the ropes of music recording, a Mac was out of the question due to cost and the PC software I was given access to by a friend who had a list of "backup" copies opened up my horizons. I've still not found something as plain and simple as ACID 4.5 from SonicFoundry (before Sony bought them). Meanwhile, my Mac laptop has become my somewhat-work-related tech-test-bed.

Definitely no offense taken. Interesting juxtaposition of perspective, though, in my opinion.

 

[fullflavormenthol]

Autodesk what? Far as I knew they didn't make AutoCAD for the Mac. Revit?

Maya, and Mudbox. They can be used on both systems, it is just that I prefer them on a Mac. Well there is Sketchbox, but that is really just a sketch program.

I have a system worked out where I design on a Mac, build in Windows, and animate on a Mac. I composite the video on a Mac, and work out the audio on Ubuntu, and clean it up with Soundtrack Pro. A complicated system, but it is working out so far. Hopefully I will be able to one day put something out on my own to prove it.

EDIT: I have never even touched AutoCAD, though I hear good things. The lowest I have ever gone is Viz, but since Viz is just 3ds cut down I have moved to using only 3ds Max for construction of models.

EDIT2: I was also "loaned" some software in my undergrad education to learn Adobe CS3, and I got into that because I was able to create some really great artwork out of Applework(HOW?), and so that is what got me into digital design.

 

[GreNME]

Cool. Didn't know that, and it's good to know. If you're ever looking for that low a level of CAD work on a Mac, though, I suggest something called VectorWorks. Pretty slick, works on Mac and Windows OS, and the licensing for it are a bit more forgiving and less expensive than AutoDesk.

 

[fullflavormenthol]

Cool. Didn't know that, and it's good to know. If you're ever looking for that low a level of CAD work on a Mac, though, I suggest something called VectorWorks. Pretty slick, works on Mac and Windows OS, and the licensing for it are a bit more forgiving and less expensive than AutoDesk.

I will look into that. Right now I am in Grad School and trying to create something I can submit to student film festivals. So anything that I can fold into the production line I will look into.

What I have found is to not look down on any program. (I realise I called AutoCAD a low level program, but it is great for design) I find that I need to represent the entire production line myself, and that takes all kinds of programs and operating systems. So I have been using Macs, and PC's (Windows and Linux) trying to find the best work flow. That means looking at rendering software that works on all three. Mainly so I can buy some throw away computers to install Damn Small Linux on so that I can build a really ghetto render farm for my projects.

EDIT: Right now I am getting away with a lot because I am able to buy the student version of the Autodesk Educational Suite for Entertainment Producation(?), which allows me to buy over $10,000 worth of programs for around $350. So hopefully I will get good enough to get a job out of this.

EDIT2: For anyone who wants to know Maya can be used on a Linux system also, if anyone is interested in the program. Actually Apple Shake can also be used on Linux.

 

[jsiv]

What's puzzling is how they tout the resolution of their newest display on the iMac but the iTunes store currently only offers HD at 720p. That screen is begging for a Blu-Ray drive.

Rumor has it that Blu-Ray was pulled just before production started. Bummer.

Does OS X even support Blu-ray? I'm pretty sure it can't be licensed without fairly elaborate DRM support in the OS (protected pipelines all the way from the decoder to the output driver, which means you have to support protected processes and have a mechanism in place to verify the integrity of the various components).

She may simply have been referring to the fact that you can order a Mac Pro with up four video cards in various combinations of make and model.

Something Vista does not support (but 7 does). So hey, this goes both ways!!

 

[Policenaut]

Does OS X even support Blu-ray? I'm pretty sure it can't be licensed without fairly elaborate DRM support in the OS (protected pipelines all the way from the decoder to the output driver, which means you have to support protected processes and have a mechanism in place to verify the integrity of the various components).

No you can't play blu ray discs on a mac but you can burn blu ray discs (I believe you can read blu ray data discs as well) and I have heard you can rip blu ray movies.

 

[Darat]

...snip...

I honestly believe that a big reason why PC is so popular for gaming (besides the economic concerns I've mentioned already) has to do with the mentality of the typical hardcore gamer, and less to do with the actual capabilities of a Mac (these things are workhorses, seriously, and kick out some serious power). It's that the gaming community is big into upgrading their computers every time a new video card is released. Always tweaking and poking and upgrading to try and get just one extra frame per second (not that it really makes a difference above a certain threshold... there's only so many FPS the human eye can see!). You can't do that on a Mac (well, you can on a MP, but most people don't want to pay the premium to be able to do that). But you can on a PC.

Whilst I am sure you do honestly believe that it simply isn't the case. For example back in the late 90s we had a worldwide number one game for the PC and the Mac (because at that time we were using a software based renderer that was cross-platform), we worked with Apple a lot and they used the game wherever they showcased the Mac (to show that Mac's were every bit as much a game playing platform as a PC). The ratio of Mac to PC sales was in the region of 1:10,000, and remember this is for a number one game on the Mac. It was the lack of a market initially, then as I said the parting of the way in regards to graphic hardware that has meant the Mac has lagged as a gaming platform.

 

[Darat]

...snip...

For the rest of your dodging, the point is that you seem emotionally involved in the debate, and that's impairing your ability to look at the subject critically. The same applies with the "Apples are too expensive" stuff. It's a computer, not a way of life, not a commentary on personality, and criticisms against Apple and their products are not criticisms against Mac users.

Have you never read a Mac magazine? When I was looking to buy my Mac I bought a few of the Mac dedicated magazines and I was astonished how much emotion they had invested in being a Mac owner (and we've seen it to a degree in this thread).

(I've kept one of magazines for prosperity - this was just before Apple moved to Intel CPUs and the editorial was all about how "Wintel" had nothing to compare with the Mac because the Macs used the superior PowerPC CPU and Apples choice of this CPU would mean the Mac would remain the "best" PC available....)

 

[JoeyDonuts]

Oy. Noticed the same thing.

I'm under no illusions about the limitations of the Mac as a platform.

It does what I need a computer to do. Could a PC? Sure, why not. But Mac is working fine for me, I like it, and see no real reason to switch.

That said, I'll probably wind up getting a laptop running Windows 7 at some point. Why would I get one of these instead of a Macbook? I want one, just like I wanted an iMac for my primary desktop.

I don't really feel the need to defend either choice, as if it's a personal lifestyle choice that's under attack or something. I think many people get too invested in the notion of what their chosen computer says ABOUT them rather than what it does FOR them. The marketing by both respective companies doesn't really help, and I think people on both sides buy into it.

I myself have noticed an increasing affinity for argyle patterns since I went Mac.

 

[tesscaline]

Whilst I am sure you do honestly believe that it simply isn't the case. For example back in the late 90s we had a worldwide number one game for the PC and the Mac (because at that time we were using a software based renderer that was cross-platform), we worked with Apple a lot and they used the game wherever they showcased the Mac (to show that Mac's were every bit as much a game playing platform as a PC). The ratio of Mac to PC sales was in the region of 1:10,000, and remember this is for a number one game on the Mac. It was the lack of a market initially, then as I said the parting of the way in regards to graphic hardware that has meant the Mac has lagged as a gaming platform.

This again? Seriously?

Darat, no offense, but you might actually try reading what you're responding to, as well as the rest of the thread. You are not saying anything different than what I've said, so if I'm wrong, so are you.

 

[Darat]

This again? Seriously?

Darat, no offense, but you might actually try reading what you're responding to, as well as the rest of the thread. You are not saying anything different than what I've said, so if I'm wrong, so are you.

Then your posts are not as clear as you may think they are.

 

[not daSkeptic]

Then your posts are not as clear as you may think they are.

She quite clearly indicated that her argument was in addition to the economic issues that you mentioned. You even quoted it.

 

[BobHaulk]

i've yet to meet a pc user who hasn't had their computer in bits.
I had a pc once, for a week, it was the worst week of my life.

 

[Aepervius]

I've known many who made the same arguments as dtugg. Ultimately, their upset is the result of not being a part of Apple's target market.

Not upset. More like gently mocking. Most PC user I know do not care about PC vs Mac war. But in my (albeit limited) experience , mac user take pride in their Mac, as well as a few high end PC user. Most of the rest just use it and DO NOT CARE (PC or Mac). We can see an example here with daskeptic thinking that PC user are upset to not be the target of a market artificially made expansive.

I can remember Mac vs PC war where the Mac user were touting their super mega CPU plateform. Well , now they are more or less using standard PC hardware. I never participated in such flame war, but i could not stop laughing when i heard the decision.

For me it boil down to this : where can i get the game I like. So far PC and console. Not so Mac.

 

[jsiv]