Can I get a passport without a SSN?

boyntonstu

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Can I get a passport without a SSN?

http://forum.freestateproject.org/index.php?topic=15140.0

Yes! I have a passport and did not provide a ss#. If you read the application, on the back of the last page it states that. the IRS will fine you $500 for failure to disclose the number. The clerk claimed that I need to fill it out. I ended up speaking to a supervisor who pointed to the penalty clause. My response was "no problem, the IRS can fine me $500. I can afford it. Please tell them to send me a bill and in the meantime, process my application. Six weeks later I received my passport. I will say that a friend went with me and turned in their app at the same time. They did disclose and got the goods in two weeks so be prepared for a delay.

There is no law which requires you to have one so there can be no law which requires you to disclose what you're not required to have. No word from the IRS 5 years and one passport renewal later (I did not include a ss# on the renewal app either).

“If you read the application, on the back of the last page it states that. the IRS will fine you $500 for failure to disclose the number.”

Indeed, for tax purposes only; not for passports!
 
Believe it or not, anonymous people on web forums aren't necessarily 100% accurate.

From http://travel.state.gov/passport/get/first/first_830.html:

STEP 1: Complete and Submit Form DS-11: Application For A U.S. Passport
Complete Form DS-11: Application for a U.S. Passport. To submit Form DS-11, you:

  • Must apply in person at an Acceptance Facility or Passport Agency
  • Must include the additional documentation required by Form DS-11 (See Steps 2-5)
  • Must not sign the application until instructed to do so by the Acceptance Agent
  • Must provide your SSN in accordance with 26 U.S.C. 6039E
Click to expand...
Notice last line. The code referenced specifically requires the TIN (aka Social Security Number).
 
boyntonstu said:
Please show us the connection between the IRS Code and a passport.
Click to expand...

The connection is that the State Department passport regulations cross-reference title 26 (the Internal Revenue Code). Which is not the same as the "IRS code"; there's no mention of the IRS in that particular section at all.

And if you actually read the relevant law, you do not need to provide a TIN. You only need to provide it if you have it. If for some reason you've managed to avoid getting a TIN, you can still get a passport without penalty. (The free state nutcase happened to be right on this one.) But if you have one, they will simply attach your TIN to the passport file anyway and charge you $500 for the extra work they've got to do.

What's the point of making your passport $500 more expensive than it needs to be?
 
boyntonstu said:
Please show us the connection between the IRS Code and a passport.
Click to expand...

Excuse me? I just gave you a link to the relevant federal law with the requirement. I have no idea why the requirement is there, but it most assuredly is there.
 
drkitten said:
And if you actually read the relevant law, you do not need to provide a TIN. You only need to provide it if you have it. If for some reason you've managed to avoid getting a TIN, you can still get a passport without penalty. (The free state nutcase happened to be right on this one.) But if you have one, they will simply attach your TIN to the passport file anyway and charge you $500 for the extra work they've got to do.

What's the point of making your passport $500 more expensive than it needs to be?
Click to expand...

I did notice the "if you have one" part, but I'm not sure how you'd go about avoiding getting one. They assign it at birth, no?
 
Cleon said:
I did notice the "if you have one" part, but I'm not sure how you'd go about avoiding getting one. They assign it at birth, no?
Click to expand...

No.

Granted, your parents have to be pretty bonkers for you NOT to have a SSN within a year of your birth; in order to claim you as a dependent, you need to have a SSN.

... or you simply need not to be a US citizen and not to have lived in the US.
 
drkitten said:
No.

Granted, your parents have to be pretty bonkers for you NOT to have a SSN within a year of your birth; in order to claim you as a dependent, you need to have a SSN.
Click to expand...

Ah, ok. (I have no kids, and obviously I wasn't consulted when my parents got me an SSN. Of course, my parents have never been tax-protesting whackaloons, so it's a non-issue.)

... or you simply need not to be a US citizen and not to have lived in the US.
Click to expand...

If that's the case, would/could you apply for a US passport in the first place? :confused:
 
US Passports
Some forms for applying for US Passports (DSP-11 12/87) request a Social Security Number, but don't give enough information in their Privacy Act notice to verify that the Passport office has the authority to request it. There is a reference to "Federal Tax Law" and a misquotation of Section 6039E of the 1986 Internal Revenue Code, claiming that that section requires that you provide your name, mailing address, date of birth, and Social Security Number. The referenced section only requires TIN (SSN), and it only requires that it be sent to the IRS (not to the Passport office). It appears that when you apply for a passport, you can refuse to reveal your SSN to the passport office, and instead mail a notice to the IRS, give only your SSN (other identifying info optional) and notify them that you are applying for a passport. Here is the postscript source for the letter that was used by one contributor. Another reader has converted the letter to Word for the Macintosh. I've now converted it to HTML as well. Other readers have also used this technique successfully.
I had received reports that a new version of the passport application fixed the problems described above. Apparently, these new applications asked for SSN, but stated that failure to provide it wasn't grounds to deny a passport. It warned that the SSN would be used to verify the other information on the form, and processing of the application might be delayed if the number was not provided.
There's another new version (DS-11 03-2005) available now at the State department's web site. It has a different notice that implies (in the same roundabout way) that the SSN is required by the abovementioned laws, and says passports will be refused if the number is not included. People have continued to report that using the letters provided by David Wise result in timely processing.
I applied for a renewal of my passport in July, 2000, and received a new passport in August. I used the 1997 version of the form for Renewal by Mail, which I obtained at the State department's web site, and sent a suitably modified version of Professor Wise's letter. (The letter assumes you are delivering the application to a postal clerk.)

Tax Protesters?


http://cpsr.org/issues/privacy/ssn-government/#passport
 
If this is a "tax protest" isn't it the worst one ever, in that it requires you to give the government an extra $500? I bet the IRS hate that.
 
Stick it to the man. Now the government only got ahold of your birth certificate, address, full name, previous addresses, shoe size....etc etc.

You sure showed them.
 
Cleon said:
If that's the case, would/could you apply for a US passport in the first place? :confused:
Click to expand...

I do not believe there is a requirement for US citizens, in general, to have SSNs, nor do I think they are required to get them as part of the naturalization process. So if one played one's cards exactly right, one could become a naturalized citizen without an SSN, and then apply for a passport.

Of course, you'd have to forego almost the entire US economy to do it; you couldn't get a job, for example, so you'd need to be stonkin' rich to begin with, and you couldn't invest or even bank your money, so you'd need to put your entire fortune into a great wodge of cash.

I think technically dual nationals are not liable for US taxes on income earned abroad, so you could also be born on US soil (and therefore hold a US passport) while living and working in Ruritania without a SSN. I am not a tax lawyer, though, so don't take that as legal advice.
 
I find it hard now to believe anything you post, dude. You cannot even prove to me that you are a US citizen and entitled to a US passport without a SSN.

Would a Freestater lie on the internet?:jaw-dropp

Well DUH!
 
What is the advantage of not giving a SSN when applying for a passport?
 
The fact that he may have got a passport without having to provide a SSN# is all the more reason why I've advocated that SSN# be tatooed across the forehead (along with a bar code, of course) AND that every citizen be required to have a micro chip implanted on their body. That should solve the problem, I should think.
 
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