Suzanne Somers strikes again

[macdoc]

Yes and mine did not..and prescibed a drug.....get it???....

Too many do not do what yours did and do what mine did, either out of lack of information or in many cases tilted by pressure or profit.

The same applies to generics.....doctors end up prescribing the name brand rather than the generic.
In this case no risk attached - merely patients or the drug plan's funds.

Some doctors look at alternative solutions and lower cost solution, it's growing but too many reach for the prescription pad FIRST>

This is just a simple example portraying the more complex issues like Ritalin which sees the doctors reaching for the prescription pad FIRST.
Not all....but too many.

Doctors too often fight nurse practitioners and mid-widery as well who often have more time and more hands on experience with the day to day health needs of patients as intruding on sacred turf.

It's a mentality of the doctor and mainstream as priesthood not to be questioned or examined.
Given the level of risk....examination and correction is overdue AND in many countries including my own showing success with programs to address and reduce the risks.

As tedious as it might be making me read my chemo and affirm it's my name and birthdate on it for each and every bag reduces risk of a truly dangerous mixup in a harried environment.

 

[LibraryLady]

Interestingly enough, my doctor prescribed a name brand and the insurance company would only give me the generic. The generic didn't work and made me sick. We had to fill out forms, make phone calls, and jump through hoops. The doctor did all of that for me, and I got the name brand at the same price as the generic from my insurance company.

It doesn't sound like the medical field is at fault. It sounds like you got a bad doctor. There are bad doctors. There are bad lawyers. There are bad librarians, house painters, and street sweepers. That does not mean that library science, law, painting, or sweeping are evil or uniformly bad.

It means you need a new doctor.

 

[technoextreme]

Doctors too often fight nurse practitioners and mid-widery as well who often have more time and more hands on experience with the day to day health needs of patients as intruding on sacred turf.

Or after reading some of the horror stories from the Science Based Medicine blog they could be ******* crazy insane and have no clue what they are talking about.

Yes and mine did not..and prescibed a drug.....get it???....

No. I don't. You seem very keen on generalizing everything to fit your opinion. In fact what type of doctor was your doctor. You better not be whinnying about your oncologist not knowing about the saline solution.

 

[Stacy Head]

So if she skips all medical treatments offered to her, she can go the alternative medicine route and end up like a similar 70's poster girl.

The proof is in that pudding.

 

[bigred]

Techno

Ummm you don't know what you are talking about on either count.

Avoidable errors in mainstream medicine is one of the leading causes of death - so bad that Clinton called a presidential inquiry into the situation and every nation has had major efforts to reduce it.

http://www.empowher.com/news/herart...dical-mistakes-are-8th-leading-cause-death-us

As I stated - the likes of Sommers should be sued.
Just don't make the error or putting all alternative approaches in the same approbation basket....and don't think for one minute mainstream medicine does no harm.
A cautious - armed with knowledge - approach is required.

Let's take a simple every day example.

Sinusitis - turned out was irritating my throat during chemo - nasty cough that was not handled by cough syrups or lozenges in any meaningful way.- was so bad they ordered a laproscopy of my throat and lungs just to make sure there was no cancer. Turned out no - just irritated inflamed throat.

Doc suggests ( in good faith ) an over the counter for post nasal drip which was causing the irritated throat ( mucus membranes get very sensitive in chemo. ) The drug worked to a degree but I felt awful - no energy - and that in chemo regimen is NOT tolerable.

Tried a simple _ made sense - alternative - a saline rinse - turns out there is a convenient kit. Worked like a charm tho a bit strange initially. Reduced my migraine frequency as well.
Use it twice a day now.
The doc did not know about this nor would I expect him too....no salesman is in handing out free samples and schmoozing...there is little profit in salt and water.

If you are anemic, docs will often give you an iron shot. Too often they don't know that without B12 the iron is useless....an ND would.

Alternatives have their place and an inordinate amount of woo attached but rarely do harm.

Mainstream does wonders, has considerable woo attached to drugs and too often does harm.

•••

Monoclonal anti-bodies light up the cancer cells for your immune system to destroyhttp://www.mayoclinic.com/health/monoclonal-antibody/CA00082

snip
CHOP+R is tha mainstream lymphoma treatment with a very high success rate - the R is monoclonal antibodies.

Well said and beautifully balanced approach to the whole conventional vs "alternative" thing. Refreshing as heck too. :applause: Well said and the best to you!

 

[Stacy Head]

Yes and mine did not..and prescibed a drug.....get it???....

Too many do not do what yours did and do what mine did, either out of lack of information or in many cases tilted by pressure or profit.

The same applies to generics.....doctors end up prescribing the name brand rather than the generic.
In this case no risk attached - merely patients or the drug plan's funds.

Some doctors look at alternative solutions and lower cost solution, it's growing but too many reach for the prescription pad FIRST>

This is just a simple example portraying the more complex issues like Ritalin which sees the doctors reaching for the prescription pad FIRST.
Not all....but too many.

Doctors too often fight nurse practitioners and mid-widery as well who often have more time and more hands on experience with the day to day health needs of patients as intruding on sacred turf.

It's a mentality of the doctor and mainstream as priesthood not to be questioned or examined.
Given the level of risk....examination and correction is overdue AND in many countries including my own showing success with programs to address and reduce the risks.

As tedious as it might be making me read my chemo and affirm it's my name and birthdate on it for each and every bag reduces risk of a truly dangerous mixup in a harried environment.

Just to set the record straight, a Nurse Practitioner is a licensed, trained medical person who goes through training and clinicals to practice medicine. The Nurse Practitioner is a colleague of a doctor. The choice in practice is the same as a doctor and depends on belief factor, which is unfortunate. Many doctors are creationists and I have heard "thank god" after many hours of surgery and medical treatment to turn asystole back into a normal sinus rythym.

The good doctors cannot let go of that part. I see years of training and experience that I once admired go right out the door when I hear that. Some actually believe a divine intervention was at hand when in fact we chemically and mechanically maintained life. It beffudles me. I agree with Dr Dawkins, I'm not sure I want my surgeon to be a creationist. Don't pray for me while I'm on the table, practice medicine.

 

[fls]

FLS
That is incorrect - you are trying to conflate two different issues and diminish the reality of avoidable error in mainstream medicine.

It means just that....avoidable and I would be very surprised if you could come up with any paper in support of your thesis.

The "treatments" on the alternative side are not in the acute range nor are they targetted that way.

As I said - risk is lower reward is lower.

This is like observing that vaccines are the leading cause of cancer because the incidence of cancer is much, much higher in populations whose members manage to survive to old age instead of being killed off as children.

There is nothing magical about conventional medicine that makes it error prone. It's just what happens to be in use when errors are made. If alternative medicine was what was in use, then it would be alternative medicine which was "a leading cause of death".

Also, this idea that conventional medicine is worshipped or is universally regarded as safe is a strawman that has been made up by you and by those who are supporters of ineffective remedies, like ND's. There's no point in arguing against something which nobody believes...unless you don't have anything else on your side.

Linda

 

[bluesjnr]

I can never understand the logic behind buying these sort of books. Ok, I understand that if you've got cancer, you're going to want to cure it. But why on Earth would you think "Clearly, my best chance of survival lies with the uninformed witterings of a faded minor celebrity rather than countless cumulative years of research done by trained medical professionals"? Is it a belief that there's a massive conspiracy to... what? Kill people with cancer?

No it's desperation - pure and simple. I am a skeptic but I **** myself thinking about my demise. I'm not sure what I'd do if somebody drew a line under my continued existence. I'm going to assume you've never heard the words " I'm sorry to tell you that you've only got an X% chance of living beyond the next three months". I hope you never do BUT if you did then I'm sure you will undergo a transformation of understanding.

.....snip....celebrities with no medical training whatsoever should refrain from writing books on how to cure diseases.

Nobody under any circumstances should refrain from writing books. Many people under many circumstances should refrain from reading books. People who are terminally ill should be more circumspect but see my point above as to why they might not be.

This is what astounds me too, on a regular basis. My elderly upstairs neighbour has what her GP thinks is a cancerous growth on her arm, she's refusing to have it removed and has instead plastered it with a variety of "balms"... one of which claimed it was able to remove the "cancer toxins". I've regularly had conversations with her where I've tried to convince her to take this more seriously and have it removed, but to no avail.

Recently she has told me that she doesn't trust doctors.... I queried this, much to her surprise, she said that nobody trusts them now, that they have their own agenda to get you to take drugs of some kind. I replied that I have trusted all my doctors to have my best interests at heart, some recommend no treatment, or diet changes, yet the naturopath or homeopath which she sees regularly always seems to have a variety of treatments to give for any ailment, at a cost of course.

I doubt I'll convince her to have it removed, and worry it may be too late.

You might consider that she needs to be a recipient of some tough love. The fact is she is already dead with her current philosophy. She will NEVER thank you for giving her a reality pill but if you do then you can sleep sound in the knowledge that you did everything you possibly could have done to save her from cancer and crucially herself. A tough situation for sure, I do not envy you.

Techno

Ummm you don't know what you are talking about on either count.

Avoidable errors in mainstream medicine is one of the leading causes of death - so bad that Clinton called a presidential inquiry into the situation and every nation has had major efforts to reduce it.

Errors by their very nature are avoidable. I can tell you this for a fact with regard to "mainstream medicine". If you don't cut me open and try and cut out the tumor that is sapping my life, if you don't try medicine that has worked with some people I'll be just as dead or on my way to my grave as I would be had you not tried at all. Thank you for at least trying.

As I stated - the likes of Sommers should be sued.

For what? Her readers inability to smell **** when they have it in their hands? Maybe we should sue them for stupidity? Then again go back to desperation and these types of authors will always proliferate. She is only giving these people what they want. To give people what they want is a good thing even it might kill them.

Just don't make the error or putting all alternative approaches in the same approbation basket....and don't think for one minute mainstream medicine does no harm.
A cautious - armed with knowledge - approach is required.

The fact is that the vast majority of people are not armed with knowledge, only hope. And hope is going to win out any day. Most people faced with imminent death tend to throw caution to wind. I'm not sure how far I'd go for a cure if I were terminally ill.

Let's take a simple every day example.

Sinusitis - turned out was irritating my throat during chemo - nasty cough that was not handled by cough syrups or lozenges in any meaningful way.- was so bad they ordered a laproscopy of my throat and lungs just to make sure there was no cancer. Turned out no - just irritated inflamed throat.

Doc suggests ( in good faith ) an over the counter for post nasal drip which was causing the irritated throat ( mucus membranes get very sensitive in chemo. ) The drug worked to a degree but I felt awful - no energy - and that in chemo regimen is NOT tolerable.

Tried a simple _ made sense - alternative - a saline rinse - turns out there is a convenient kit. Worked like a charm tho a bit strange initially. Reduced my migraine frequency as well.
Use it twice a day now.
The doc did not know about this nor would I expect him too....no salesman is in handing out free samples and schmoozing...there is little profit in salt and water.

If you are anemic, docs will often give you an iron shot. Too often they don't know that without B12 the iron is useless....an ND would.

Alternatives have their place and an inordinate amount of woo attached but rarely do harm.

Mainstream does wonders, has considerable woo attached to drugs and too often does harm.

Not a simple example and not everyday. I'm assuming you have some form of cancer, I'm truly sorry if that is the case. If not I apologise for my presumption. I can say with confidence that you clearly have a propensity towards belief in alternative remedies whilst still embracing modern "mainstream" medicine. Nothing wrong with keeping your options open.

In your situation I would not be in the least bit interested in the potential harm of my treatment and certainly NEVER from a qualified, certified, tried and trained doctor using clinically proven, certified, tried, tested medicines and methodology to make me well. I'd be climbing the frikkin' wall for anything to make me better.

I'm a complete coward when I'm forced to contemplate my fate and I don't doubt that you are many times braver than me. May I wish you well whatever path you or combination of paths you choose.

 

[fls]

Doctors too often fight nurse practitioners and mid-widery as well who often have more time and more hands on experience with the day to day health needs of patients as intruding on sacred turf.

This is incorrect. Nurse practioners and midwives are part of the practice of conventional medicine. The degree to which there may be any conflict reflects the degree to which a midwife wishes to promote the use of ineffective practices at the expense of effective practices.

Also, when it comes to issues of safety and outcomes with midwife programs, better outcomes seems to simply be due to selection. Those women who are more likely to choose and stick with a midwife are those who are less likely to have a complicated pregnancy to begin with. If you randomly assign midwifery, the outcomes are no different than with conventional care.

It's a mentality of the doctor and mainstream as priesthood not to be questioned or examined.

This is also incorrect. The bulk of the practice of medicine is taken up with self-examination and with examination of the practice in order to improve safety and effectiveness. You would be hard-pressed to find any other occupation which spends more time on this issue. Contrast this with alternative practitioners which spend almost no time on this issue. For example, in those few states which have licensed boards overseeing naturopathy and/or homeopathy, the complaints committees almost never find even grossly negligent and harmful practitioners guilty of negligence and harm.

Example:
http://lippard.blogspot.com/2009/07/arizonas-homeopathic-medical-board.html

Linda

 

[technoextreme]

Monoclonal anti-bodies light up the cancer cells for your immune system to destroyhttp://www.mayoclinic.com/health/monoclonal-antibody/CA00082

snip
CHOP+R is tha mainstream lymphoma treatment with a very high success rate - the R is monoclonal antibodies.

If it was so effective they wouldn't have to combine it with known carcinogeons. And yes the irony is not lost on me that the mainstream treatment of lymphoma involves giving people carcinogeons.
http://ntp.niehs.nih.gov/ntp/roc/eleventh/profiles/s052cycl.pdf

 

[Eos of the Eons]

You live in Canada eh....

Little profit in managed care for the drug companies or doctors in the US.



My son is type one.

We're talking type two here. Which of those "drugs" are for type two only. I worked in a Diabetes Education Center. The nurses and trained registered dieticians gave out far more information on diet and exercise and menu plans than on drugs (a doctor only came in once a month), and spent MOST of their time counselling patients on DIET and daily exercise. The wonderful staff there held daily workshops on DIET and exercise, and even got this awesome fake food to indicate serving sizes.

 

[MattusMaximus]

It's when I read crap like this that the cynic in me thinks the only way to really, truly get past all of this alt-med, anti-vax crapola is for a really nasty plague-like disease to hit us. Those who go with science-based medicine live, those who go with the woo die.

The only reason why these woos can do so well is precisely because it is the science-based medicine which is getting & keeping people better. But the alt-med goobers will then turn around and give the credit to their woo, just as Somers is doing now.

I'm telling you, some of these idiots just won't get it without a major freakin' disastrous plague slamming humanity and science providing a treatment/cure. And some of them won't even clue in then.

 

[Ivor the Engineer]

<snip>

There is nothing magical about conventional medicine that makes it error prone. It's just what happens to be in use when errors are made. If alternative medicine was what was in use, then it would be alternative medicine which was "a leading cause of death".

If alternative medicine was what was in use then all deaths would be due to natural causes.

More seriously: the practice of conventional medicine is a higher stakes game than alternative medicine because it uses technology which has large physiological effects, whereas alternative medicine (in general) does not.

Also, this idea that conventional medicine is worshipped or is universally regarded as safe is a strawman that has been made up by you and by those who are supporters of ineffective remedies, like ND's. There's no point in arguing against something which nobody believes...unless you don't have anything else on your side.

Linda

Many people are reluctant to question their physicians' conclusions and many physicians resent having their conclusions questioned.

 

[LibraryLady]

If alternative medicine was what was in use then all deaths would be due to natural causes.

More seriously: the practice of conventional medicine is a higher stakes game than alternative medicine because it uses technology which has large physiological effects, whereas alternative medicine (in general) does not.



Many people are reluctant to question their physicians' conclusions and many physicians resent having their conclusions questioned.

That has happened to me.

I got another doctor.

You have to pick and choose, just like you shop around for a mechanic, hairdresser, or librarian.


Wait...

 

[technoextreme]

Many people are reluctant to question their physicians' conclusions and many physicians resent having their conclusions questioned.

You sir have not met my mother. To this day she is still angry at the doctor who told her she was being abusive because she let me join school a year earlier than most kids typically do.

More seriously: the practice of conventional medicine is a higher stakes game than alternative medicine because it uses technology which has large physiological effects, whereas alternative medicine (in general) does not.

Good point. I was reading some studies of ventricular assist devices for my biomedical class. Let me tell you that having the leads pop off the pump helping your beating heart circulate blood and having said pump collapse the chambers of your heart due is not a pleasant experience.

 

[bethgsd]

I know that some people turn to alternative medicine when they've gotten no relief from conventional medicine. The people that I know that have done this though have things like back problems or shoulder issues and have found that chiropractors have given some relief. I know when my shoulder pain is bad enough I consider it. However, I'm still exhausting the conventional medicine road and I certainly wouldn't eat pasture weeds expecting them to stop cancer.

 

[Stout]

I know that some people turn to alternative medicine when they've gotten no relief from conventional medicine. .

My mother did that. She was in her 80s and had a whole host of illnesses which she was treating with conventional medicine. She's mentioned seeing a Naturopath and i didn't make any objections due to her not eschewing evidence based medicine and no evidence that the Naturopath was telling her to do so.

it wasn't until after she died and I was cleaning out her place that I ran across the "stash" of alt products, many still unopened. I threw out most of them. my sister took the others ( what she did with them I don't know ) but suffice to say, mom, wasn't cured by them either.

 

[technoextreme]

My mother did that. She was in her 80s and had a whole host of illnesses which she was treating with conventional medicine. She's mentioned seeing a Naturopath and i didn't make any objections due to her not eschewing evidence based medicine and no evidence that the Naturopath was telling her to do so.

it wasn't until after she died and I was cleaning out her place that I ran across the "stash" of alt products, many still unopened. I threw out most of them. my sister took the others ( what she did with them I don't know ) but suffice to say, mom, wasn't cured by them either.

Still that is kind of risky. I do know that some Naturopathic drugs and supplements screw around with real drugs like chemotherapy. I think I remember reading about it on this forum.

 

[Riayn]

Science based medicine has a fantastic post about Somers' book Knockout and the inaccuracies just in chapter 1. Scary stuff.

 

[technoextreme]

Science based medicine has a fantastic post about Somers' book Knockout and the inaccuracies just in chapter 1. Scary stuff.

Is Gorski Orac?
EDIT:
Indeed he is.