UFOs: The Research, the Evidence

[Sledge]

You know that. I know that. Hell, anyone who's waded through this thread knows that. So wouldn't it be more interesting and almost infinitely more productive if Rramjet would come out with what he actually wants to discuss, instead of trying to be clever and make us come to the conclusion by ourselves?

 

[Darat]

To all participants: Stop the personal attacks.

If you can't post within the constraints of your Membership Agreement then do not post.

Replying to this modbox in thread will be off topic  Posted By: Darat

 

[MattusMaximus]

If you have ANY such evidence that refutes my post (#1059) then produce it!

Rramjet, if you kept those damn goalposts in one spot, then it might actually be possible for you to see that your points have been thoroughly refuted.

But believe what you want, if it makes you feel better. Just don't expect anyone else to go following you down the rabbit hole.

 

[GeeMack]

You all congratulated EHocking on what a fine hatchet job he conducted. Let us examine the evidence to see if he really did what he stated he did.

[*spam snipped*]

Your argument, Rramjet, as always, is from ignorance and incredulity. The comments you've made, those claiming that other posters have not thoroughly and effectively supported the blimp possibility, are all lies.

 

[Jocce]

No, again you misread the evidence . Plainly the witnesses described the object a “circular" THROUGHOUT the sighting. That aspect NEVER changed (see Mr. B’s statements above for example)

I'm curious about how you interpret "circular" in this context Rramjet. Do you interpret it as if the witnesses saw it standing vertically "face on" so to speak, displaying a circular outline against the sky or do you interpret it as they saw it soaring horisontally "edge on" and infered that it was circular although the outline against the sky was oval? Was it a standing pancake or was it laying down so to speak if you understand me.

 

[AWPrime]

Yes, it WAS originally coming toward them (as implied by their various statements testifying to having the sun at their backs) but notice that it DID turn generally southward

They had the sun to the back, this means that the object would be reflecting light, this means that important details would be glared away. Can you admit that?

 

[Jocce]

Yet you willfully ignore the historical evidence as presented in my post (#1059) confirming that it was highly implausible for a blimp to have been at Rogue River in May 1949.

Rramjet, it seems like you are still confusing the navy with the reserve. Just an observation that you might want to look into.

I quote Ehocking:

"in 1949 eight new reserve LTA patrol squadrons (ZP) were established... etc.

8 NEW in 1949.

 

[Jocce]

what possible rationale would a Santa Ana blimp be sent 400 miles to overfly San Francisco and the Oakland base and then proceed another 300 miles to Rogue River? Remember these were ostensibly NAVY RESERVE training bases.

One must also note the location of Rogue River. This is a relatively sparsely populated region of the continental US, on the West Coast in the centre of the Siskiyou National Forest region with only one main road in and out of the region (the Oregon Coast Highway 101).

Most of the reservists' weekend flying was dedicated to maintaining basic flying skills
Source: http://www.thefreelibrary.com/Lighter-than-air+reservists-a095954316

When I took my pilots license and also once I had it and wanted to maintain my flying skills. I just went, somewhere...

 

[Jocce]

Rramjet, since it can't be proven that it was a blimp and it can't be proven that is wasn't a blimp why don't we leave it at what we already agreed on. It's UNIDENTIFIED.

We can of course spend another 28 pages arguing about probability estimates but it's not really leading anywhere and is pretty pointless. Maybe it's time to move on with your argumentation to the aliens?

 

[Marduk]

Rramjet, since it can't be proven that it was a blimp and it can't be proven that is wasn't a blimp why don't we leave it at what we already agreed on. It's UNIDENTIFIED.

We can of course spend another 28 pages arguing about probability estimates but it's not really leading anywhere and is pretty pointless. Maybe it's time to move on with your argumentation to the aliens?

that won't be good enough, his whole argument depends on UFO's being identified as something unearthly. This is what would happen

Rramjet : so we all agree that as this can't possibly be a blimp it must be an alien spacecraft
Dissenter : Ok but it could be a blimp
Rramjet : back to page 1 then

 

[Jocce]

Come to think of it. Can't possibly be a unicorn so it has to be an acorn.

 

[Access Denied]

Thus it would seem to stretch credulity to its limits to suppose that a Goodyear blimp would even attempt the 190 mile journey from Salem to Rogue River.

How do you figure given they routinely travel 300 miles in 8 hours?

What makes you believe a) it started out from Salem and b) would have returned there?

How do you think the current fleet of three Goodyear blimps (based in California, Ohio and Florida) gets around the country to various events?

From the Goodyear FAQ…

“At the very tip of the blimp's nose is a steel ball much like an automobile trailer hitch. This ball locks onto a cup at the top of the portable mooring mast, which is taken along and set up wherever the ship is operating.”

Seems to me they could park and refuel just about anywhere they want in which case all this talk about where active LTA hangers may or may not have been located is pretty much irrelevant.

 

[EHocking]

Rramjet, if you kept those damn goalposts in one spot, then it might actually be possible for you to see that your points have been thoroughly refuted.

I've got too much time on my hands. Here's one I prepared previously.

But believe what you want, if it makes you feel better. Just don't expect anyone else to go following you down the rabbit hole.

 

[apathoid]

I've got too much time on my hands. Here's one I prepared previously.
http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/imagehosting/26614a76ec3f84da4.gif

I want, I want, I want!

 

[Access Denied]

2.5 miles in 2-3 mins = 75-50mph

Math is hard.

Epic rebuttal. (to Maccabee's "analysis" in particular)

 

[EHocking]

I want, I want, I want!

I wrote it in response to a particularly frustrating respondent here and am more than happy for the JREF fraternity to make the most of it, even for it to be added to the JREF list of emoticons if they so wish.

Share and enjoy.

 

[apathoid]

I wrote it in response to a particularly frustrating respondent here and am more than happy for the JREF fraternity to make the most of it, even for it to be added to the JREF list of emoticons if they so wish.

Share and enjoy.

Thank you, and I'll add it to my arsenal immediately!

 

[Access Denied]

Honestly, I cannot believe this damn thread is still alive. Kill it, please

No, please don’t! As frustrating as it may be for those participants whose arguments are summarily ignored by the OP, I think he makes an excellent poster child (pun intended) for the (mostly perpetual) state of UFOlogy… think of it as him unwittingly serving as a warning to others as clearly 99% of what’s been said here has been flying right over his head (a UFO of a different kind) but not necessarily over the heads of all the “true believers” who are lurking. A teachable moment for the value of critical thinking skills if there ever was one…

 

[Toke]

How do you figure given they routinely travel 300 miles in 8 hours?

What makes you believe a) it started out from Salem and b) would have returned there?

How do you think the current fleet of three Goodyear blimps (based in California, Ohio and Florida) gets around the country to various events?

From the Goodyear FAQ…

“At the very tip of the blimp's nose is a steel ball much like an automobile trailer hitch. This ball locks onto a cup at the top of the portable mooring mast, which is taken along and set up wherever the ship is operating.”

Seems to me they could park and refuel just about anywhere they want in which case all this talk about where active LTA hangers may or may not have been located is pretty much irrelevant.

This reminds me of an old advertising poster for the Hamburg-South America route. 3 days by airship.

Regular ships do not pull over for the night, why should airships?
On longer trips they can continue as long as the fuel lasts with the crew taking turns sleeping.

 

[Vortigern99]

Rramjet, what do you make of the point that member after member currently posting in this thread, including at least one professional astrophysicist, are consistently describing your critical thinking skills as sloppy, your reading comprehension as limited, and your understanding of scientific precepts and methods (burden of proof, the hierarchy of evidence) as flawed; while your tendency to ascribe imaginary motives to your opponents is pronounced, and your capacity for leaping to unsupported conclusions based on the flimsiest evidence (namely, conflicting anecdotes) is anything but logical?

Is it possible, just possible, that you're the one in error here? That dozens of skeptics, both pro and amateur, are actually on the right track when they repeat Carl Sagan's maxim that "extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence"? That you're making mistakes of judgement and rationality based on a purely emotional attachment to the idea of "alien visitation"?

I expect you'll respond that no, we're all somehow in the wrong and you, champion of a marginalized viewpoint, have the right of it after all. But who knows? Maybe you'll surprise us all and admit, finally, that your thinking has been clouded by a pre-desired outcome, namely "alien visitation." Stranger things have happened. Here's hoping.