• Security incident: ISF was recently accessed by intruders. Please change your password, and change it anywhere else you used it. Read more

UFOs: The Research, the Evidence

Status
Not open for further replies.
BabyHeadedMan said:
Didn't anyone read my post on the activities of the blimp hangars around the time the incident in question occurred? For convenience, I have reproduced my post below:
Click to expand...
In 1949, Tillamook was being used for lumber milling (http://www.nastillamook.org/faqs/hangars/use.htm). In August of 1947, Santa Ana ceased its blimp operations, thereby ending all blimp operations on the West Coast (http://www.militarymuseum.org/MCASTustin.html). Santa Ana decommissioned on June 6, 1949 (see previous reference), and thereafter reestablished itself for civilian use for less than two years (http://www.airfields-freeman.com/CA/...rangeCo_SE.htm). This seems to suggest that since the sighting occurred on May 24, a civilian blimp at Santa Ana would not have been out flying on the day of the sighting either, unless the date of the sighting is wrong.
Click to expand...
In 1949 the hangars (probably the whole Tillamook base) were being used for several purposes as can be seen by the actual dates 1949-1982 Lumber planing mill and yet in 1952-53 USAF Balloon testing etc. Right upto 1984 to present: Various Blimp Developments. Sorry but the information doesn't rule out Blimp.

As for Santa Ana, although the ZP-1's were relocated to Weeksville NC, the navy always had blimps (as evidenced right through the Korean war in into recent times)... so there is really no reason to suspect that blimps were absent from the area during 1949 (the year that Santa Ana was decommissioned and still had mooring and hangar facilities for a blimp flown from Tillamook).

But thanks for the info, I did miss it first time round.
 
Further, here are some pics of known blimps from angles suggesting "round" or "circular" from a front or rear angle of view:

blimp5-800.jpg


213629769_05596a5fa7.jpg


EDIT: These two gifs will not load on the screen: http://l.yimg.com/g/images/spaceball.gif and http://l.yimg.com/g/images/spaceball.gif . Please click the link to see the pics.

So we see that a standard blimp could easily have been mistaken for a circular or round disc-shaped object by a viewer who did not understand what they were looking at.
 
Last edited:
Vortigern99 said:
So we see that a standard blimp could easily have been mistaken for a circular or round disc-shaped object by a viewer who did not understand what they were looking at.
Click to expand...

Most definitely agreed (though couldn't view the 'spaceballs').

Now, Rramjet, here lies a straightforward challenge for you to prove you have a critical thinking mind...do you agree with the highlited part of Vortigern99's quote (nothing more, nothing less)? Yes/no will do. Thanks.
 
Last edited:
Rramjet said:
No disrespect intended Astrophotographer, merely stating the facts. We had a useful, structured debate going, you chose to abandon it.
Click to expand...

Oh I think disrespect is indeed intended. Using typical playground commentary and little smiley faces is far from being respectful of the other's position. Nice of you to be so scientific. Are you sure you can call yourself a scientist? Your behaviour here indicates something I would expect from a teenager trying to make everyone think he is smarter than he actually is.

Anyway, we keep rehashing the same stuff and I refuse to waste a lot of my time after I made my point. If you want to say, I win, good for you but you haven't proven anything. I chose to move to higher ground where there is less garbage.

Since you put so much faith in these eyewitnesses (even though you admit that they can make mistakes), I think we need to look at a case of a classic disc-shaped UFO that fooled not two people, not a hundred people, but thousands of people. Take a look at the following videos:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cxuztu-pllE

and http://www.wittysparks.com/video/2890791472/

This is a classic UFO case that lasted for about a decade. Everyone who saw the disc said it was a classic disc shaped UFO. It is no longer in any highlights (except the UFO hunters drug it back up for some ridiculous reason) simply because of what happened when the film was finally examined. If you were a fan of Arthur C. Clarke's, mysterious world, you would have see the UFO episode where this was examined by Dr. Robert Nathan at JPL (Nathan is or was a UFO advocate). You can download the torrent at

http://www.fulldls.com/torrent-tv-1541928.html.

On the same page you can see the synopsis of the show.

Specifically:

Lee Hansen's famous film of an unspecified object flying the mounts of Catalina Island (California), shot in 1966, is placed under scrutiny at the Jet Propulsion Laboratories in Pasadena by Dr. Robert Nathan who analyses it frame by frame. After adding several layers of the best frames, he concluded that Hansen's film contained not a UFO but a small commercial airplane as seen from the glare caused by the upper wings and the windows of the cockpit to the right.

Hundreds, if not thousands, viewed the film for at least a decade and formed the perception of a disc-shaped craft. It turned out to be something like a Cessna seen at just the right angle. What prevents the Rogue River sighting from being something similar?
 
Rramjet said:
So, a Simple, Straightforward, Factual, assessment. The witnesses would have known if they were viewing a blimp. Full stop.
Click to expand...

Then you have not read many case histories about UFOs that turn out to be IFOs. See my comment above about a film where the witnesses (and all the audiences who saw the film) should have known it was a plane. They did not because of the conditions during the filming. What prevents similar conditions from somebody recognizing a blimp?
 
I spoke to two aliens today. They say no aliens were anywhere Rogue River in the 1940s, and they hope this will put an end to the matter.
 
This is a classic UFO case that lasted for about a decade. Everyone who saw the disc said it was a classic disc shaped UFO. It is no longer in any highlights (except the UFO hunters drug it back up for some ridiculous reason) simply because of what happened when the film was finally examined. If you were a fan of Arthur C. Clarke's, mysterious world, you would have see the UFO episode where this was examined by Dr. Robert Nathan at JPL (Nathan is or was a UFO advocate). You can download the torrent at
Click to expand...

Here it is on youtube, a bit faster than having to download a torrent.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JOqOPGYTWW8&feature=related
 
Stray Cat said:
In 1949 the hangars (probably the whole Tillamook base) were being used for several purposes as can be seen by the actual dates 1949-1982 Lumber planing mill and yet in 1952-53 USAF Balloon testing etc. Right upto 1984 to present: Various Blimp Developments. Sorry but the information doesn't rule out Blimp.
Click to expand...
No other activity overlaps lumber milling in 1949, unless the list provided by the website is not comprehensive. The website also states the following: "After the war, NAS Tillamook was quickly disestablished, but her facilities continued to provide staging areas for private airship companies" (http://www.nastillamook.org/faqs/base/uses.htm). I don't know if this statement is in reference to the Goodyear blimp tour in 1947 (http://www.nastillamook.org/faqs/hangars/use.htm), though the base was not decommissioned until 1948 (http://www.nps.gov/nr/travel/aviation/usb.htm); to blimp-related usages of the base that, according to the list of uses after WWII, were to come later; or to something else not specified in the aforementioned list. At this point, it can't be completely disproved that a private airship flew out of Tillamook on the date given in the UFO report. Hopefully, we can find some more information to clear up these ambiguities.
As for Santa Ana, although the ZP-1's were relocated to Weeksville NC, the navy always had blimps (as evidenced right through the Korean war in into recent times)... so there is really no reason to suspect that blimps were absent from the area during 1949 (the year that Santa Ana was decommissioned and still had mooring and hangar facilities for a blimp flown from Tillamook).

But thanks for the info, I did miss it first time round.
Click to expand...
My reference was quite clear in stating blimp operations on the West Coast ceased in August of 1947.
 
BabyHeadedMan said:
My reference was quite clear in stating blimp operations on the West Coast ceased in August of 1947.
Click to expand...
Yes there was no further need for regular observation patrols/operations they had done during WWII... that is true. However Blimp research development and improvement were still a part of US Navy practice, I suspect is why the Blimp hangar and mooring facility at Santa Ana were not removed.

As for Tillamook's Hangar usage: In 1958, it only mentions Balloon launching, do you think that could mean that Lumber Planing was suspended? Or is it more possible that the hangar was in multiple use?
 
It seems to me that Rramjet is arguing this backwards.

If he wants us to accept "aliens" of any sort as a possible explanation for some UFOs, wouldn't it make more sense to offer the evidence that such beings exist first? That would effectively put his "possibly alien" explanations on the same footing as the "possibly blimp" explanations.

Unless, of course, his "evidence" consists of equating "unknown" with "alien".
 
But he HAS posted his evidence of aliens! A bunch of drunk hillbillies shooting at owls inarguably proves aliens exist.

Somehow.
 
Rramjet said:
My advice to you would be to go to Blue Book Special report No. 14 (http://www.ufocasebook.com/specialreport14.pdf), download the pdf file and then read the first 14 pages.
Click to expand...

Just started doing that. The first thing that strikes me is on page viii:

Therefore, on the basis of this evaluation of the information, it is considered to be highly improbable that reports of unidentified aerial objects examined in this study represents observations of technological developments outside the range of present-day scientific knowledge. It is emphasized that there was a complete lack of any valid evidence consisting of physical matter in any case of a reported unidentified aerial object.
Click to expand...

Continuing reading...
 
Last edited:
Stray Cat said:
Yes there was no further need for regular observation patrols/operations they had done during WWII... that is true. However Blimp research development and improvement were still a part of US Navy practice, I suspect is why the Blimp hangar and mooring facility at Santa Ana were not removed.
Click to expand...
Could you please provide reference material showing that blimp activity carried out by the U.S. Navy took place on the West Coast between August of 1947 and when blimp operations resumed for the Korean War?
As for Tillamook's Hangar usage: In 1958, it only mentions Balloon launching, do you think that could mean that Lumber Planing was suspended? Or is it more possible that the hangar was in multiple use?
Click to expand...
The lumber milling occurred between 1949-1982 according to the list, which suggests the balloon launches and the lumber milling overlapped. The list, however, shows no such overlapping of activities in 1949. Again, it is possible the list does not provide a complete survey of the uses of the hangars from 1947 up to the present, so the issue of whether or not blimp activities were coinciding with lumber milling in 1949 remains ambiguous.
 
Stray Cat said:
Yes the sheer weight of BS is astounding... and yet still inconclusive from an objective POV.
Click to expand...

Indeed, if the number of reports were indication of validity then ALL religions would be true on the account of all these people's religious experiences. I don't think any sane person is entertaining that idea.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Share this page

ISF - Join now!

Every member here is approved by hand. No bots, no spam, just people who care about evidence and honest debate.

Membership is free!

Create your free account

Back
Top Bottom