Another Landlord Worry: Is the Elevator Kosher?

[lauwersw]

That's why McDonald's has the Filet-o-Fish sandwich: back when the menu was limited to burgers, fries, shakes, soft drinks and coffee, sales in heavily Catholic communities were dropping off drastically on Fridays.

A bit unrelated, but this reminds me of the time I went to McDonald's in Tel Aviv. I ordered a cheeseburger. The girl that took my order asked back:

"With cheese, sir?"

I was totally surprised by that question. I should have remembered that you don't order meat and cheese together, but still it was on their menu. But why on earth would I order a cheeseburger without the cheese?!? I would have understood better if she had asked "without meat?". Funny people.

 

[Meadmaker]

Yes - find the loopholes in the law (but only the "true, legitimate" loopholes, not those hypocritical other types, mind) - that's the spirit - there's a good Jew!

Well...yes. It may seem strange to the outsider, but somehow the Jews manage and it works for them. (Full disclosure statement. I'm sort of a pseudo-Jew. I go to a reform temple, but don't believe any of the God stuff.)

So this is why the Kama Sutra was written, and which, no doubt, translates across all religions!

For what it's worth, sex is highly encouraged on the sabbath. As for what it takes to be different enough so that it is not an every day activity, mindfulness and special attention are adequate, I'm sure. Besides, for the vast majority of us, sex isn't an every day activity. For those extraordinary folks for whom this is not the case, just make sure to show some sort of special enthusiasm, in your own special way.

There's the rub. I don't see what all the fuss is about. Automate everything - how lazy can one get?!

Again, labor is not forbidden. Creation is. In a different thread, the example I gave was suppose you are playing with a ball on the sabbath, and the ball rolls behind the couch. It's ok to move the couch in order to get it. On the other hand, if you need a light to find it, you're out of luck, not because flicking a light switch is labor, but because flicking the light switch completes a circuit. (And come to think of it, the light itself might be considered a "creation", independent of the electricity. God didn't say, "Let there be light." on the seventh day.)

(And, relating to the OP, it's a lot more labor to climb the stairs than to summon an elevator, but one requires forbidden "creation", of activating the electrical circuit.)

 

[Meadmaker]

"With cheese, sir?"

I wonder if they might have had a non-dairy cheese substitute stuff available, and those who kept kosher were accustomed to asking for something like, "cheeseburger with soy chesse". So, what she meant to ask was, "With regular cheese, sir?"

Just speculation on my part.

 

[ponderingturtle]

For what it's worth, sex is highly encouraged on the sabbath. As for what it takes to be different enough so that it is not an every day activity, mindfulness and special attention are adequate, I'm sure. Besides, for the vast majority of us, sex isn't an every day activity. For those extraordinary folks for whom this is not the case, just make sure to show some sort of special enthusiasm, in your own special way.

And here I thought you were not supposted to create anything, so it non procreative sex mandatory?

 

[lauwersw]

I wonder if they might have had a non-dairy cheese substitute stuff available, and those who kept kosher were accustomed to asking for something like, "cheeseburger with soy chesse". So, what she meant to ask was, "With regular cheese, sir?"

Just speculation on my part.

Interesting idea. It didn't sound like that to me at that time, the question was asked just as I wrote. On the other hand you remind me of some discussion that the McDonald's cheese is not really cheese. I found this after googling:

http://www.makeupyourownmind.co.uk/questions/whats-in-the-food/cheese/#question2

which kinda confirms it. Still contains milk of course, I don't knowwhen cheese stops to be cheese according to Jewish law.

 

[zooterkin]

Interesting idea. It didn't sound like that to me at that time, the question was asked just as I wrote.

It could be unconnected with whether the meal is kosher or not. More than once in Subway I've ordered a sandwich that as described on the menu comes with melted cheese on top, and I've still been asked if I want cheese (not extra cheese) and to have it grilled.

 

[Ryan O'Dine]

As I understand from conversations with orthodox Jews, there's a reason for following the laws -- and following them to the letter -- that transcends any gain for the individual. Every instance of an “i” being dotted or a “t” being crossed brings the world one little, little step closer to spiritual perfection.

This is the ultimate goal of the observant Jew. The slightly longer version: God is going to bring the world to a state of spiritual perfection one way or another. The transition can go relatively smoothly, or it can go with agony and suffering. The Jews were “chosen” to take on the burden of bringing the world to a spiritual place where that transition can proceed relatively painlessly.

From this perspective, anything that makes a Jew's life easier -- as long as the law is being fulfilled -- is fine.

And this is something I actually (grudgingly) admire about observant Judaism. Apart from the fact that it takes actual discipline and self-sacrifice on a daily basis (evidence they believe their own beliefs), its ultimate goals are not all I Me Mine.

The same cannot be said of all religions.

 

[Southwind17]

Every instance of an “i” being dotted or a “t” being crossed brings the world one little, little step closer to spiritual perfection.

And this is something I actually (grudgingly) admire about observant Judaism. Apart from the fact that it takes actual discipline and self-sacrifice on a daily basis (evidence they believe their own beliefs), its ultimate goals are not all I Me Mine.

The same cannot be said of all religions.

I might be reading you wrongly, but I fail to see how you equate the two emboldened parts above to the extent that it instils admiration, if at all. Personally, I think the observance of religious rituals is an indication of mental instability, even if only to a relatively small degree, and nobody behaving so gets my vote, let alone admiration.

 

[Ryan O'Dine]

I might be reading you wrongly, but I fail to see how you equate the two emboldened parts above to the extent that it instils admiration, if at all. Personally, I think the observance of religious rituals is an indication of mental instability, even if only to a relatively small degree, and nobody behaving so gets my vote, let alone admiration.

By "spiritual perfection" I meant "... of the world." But yes, Jews are trying to advance their own spiritual development. However, that's not their ultimate goal (as I'm given to understand).

And everybody has rituals. But not all rituals are meant to help people other than oneself.

 

[Meadmaker]

Still contains milk of course, I don't knowwhen cheese stops to be cheese according to Jewish law.

Any trace of milk or milk product renders it dairy, and unfit to be eaten with meat.

 

[ponderingturtle]

Any trace of milk or milk product renders it dairy, and unfit to be eaten with meat.

Is poultry considered meat?

 

[bigjelmapro]

A bit unrelated, but this reminds me of the time I went to McDonald's in Tel Aviv. I ordered a cheeseburger. The girl that took my order asked back:

"With cheese, sir?"

I was totally surprised by that question. I should have remembered that you don't order meat and cheese together, but still it was on their menu. But why on earth would I order a cheeseburger without the cheese?!? I would have understood better if she had asked "without meat?". Funny people.

Some McDonalds/BK/etc. offer it in Israel, some don't, depends where you go.

You can't order a cheeseburger if its not available. Only logical, right?

 

[bigjelmapro]

Don't get the environmentalist angle here. If one's using a sabbath elevator and is observing the sabbath, this means they aren't driving. If only the rest of the world takes off 1 day from using vehicles. But hey, that would imposing on one's freedoms eh?

 

[bigjelmapro]

Is poultry considered meat?

Yes.

 

[bigjelmapro]

I might be reading you wrongly, but I fail to see how you equate the two emboldened parts above to the extent that it instils admiration, if at all. Personally, I think the observance of religious rituals is an indication of mental instability, even if only to a relatively small degree, and nobody behaving so gets my vote, let alone admiration.

Yep, you fail to see it. So you're a radical atheist, who cares?

I find it a sign of mental retardation with certain atheists that fail to comprehend that those who are religious observant actually give a hoot about what atheists think of them. If it doesn't involve you, why go through such great lengths to bicker and whine?

 

[Meadmaker]

Is poultry considered meat?

Yes.

Kind of weird, eh?

In my opinion, there's a lot of "holier than thou" in the kashrut observances, and this is one example. It should be a pretty safe bet that you aren't going to boil a chicken in it's mother's milk. However, chicken looks a lot like other meat, and so it might be mistaken for mammalian meat, or vice versa, so someone comes along and says that we should take absolutely no chances and so, no chicken in cream sauce. Does that make sense? Not to me, but they seem to get along.

ETA: Fish, on the other hand, is not considered meat. Reptiles, amphibians, and invertebrates aren't kosher, so that should pretty much cover the animal domain as for food choices. If it has bones, and isn't a fish, you can't put cheese on it.

 

[ponderingturtle]

Yes.

Strange they don't lactate at all, so no milk of the mother issue.

 

[ponderingturtle]

Yes.

Kind of weird, eh?

In my opinion, there's a lot of "holier than thou" in the kashrut observances, and this is one example. It should be a pretty safe bet that you aren't going to boil a chicken in it's mother's milk. However, chicken looks a lot like other meat, and so it might be mistaken for mammalian meat, or vice versa, so someone comes along and says that we should take absolutely no chances and so, no chicken in cream sauce. Does that make sense? Not to me, but they seem to get along.

ETA: Fish, on the other hand, is not considered meat. Reptiles, amphibians, and invertebrates aren't kosher, so that should pretty much cover the animal domain as for food choices. If it has bones, and isn't a fish, you can't put cheese on it.

It is just striking me as a bit like fundamentalist christians. They know which parts are the innerant word of god and which are open to more loose interpretation. Knowing which kind of law the law is must also be important for people as well.

 

[AvalonXQ]

A bit unrelated, but this reminds me of the time I went to McDonald's in Tel Aviv. I ordered a cheeseburger. The girl that took my order asked back:

"With cheese, sir?"

I was totally surprised by that question. I should have remembered that you don't order meat and cheese together, but still it was on their menu. But why on earth would I order a cheeseburger without the cheese?!? I would have understood better if she had asked "without meat?". Funny people.

It would make sense to do that in Tel Aviv, where the meat/cheese thing is more likely to come up as something that people have a problem with. It's likely just an extra safeguard against people doing something they'll end up regretting, like the "Are you SURE you want to delete the file" window that pops up.

 

[Toke]

I have read of one religious workaround involving muslims.

The ban on adultery can be handled by temporary marriages, a few hours or less.