Hello,
Let me say this first: When i say "UFO" i am not talking about yet to be identified objects, but about unidentifiable phenomena. Phenomena, which has been declared as unidentifiable after scientific investigation.
i must admit that i didn't read the whole thread in all detail (escpecially not all links in it). But i'd like to join this discussion. What i have found in the JREF forums so are in almost all cases two viewpoints of the people:
- UFOs don't exist. Every case can be explained, if enough data is available
- UFOs do exist
Often enough, part of the skeptics position are jokes, or to make a fool of those who claim to have seen something that cannot be explained with our understanding of the world. There is absolutely no reason to be so pejorative.
So i really don't understand why a skeptic person not even says "OK, you said you saw a UFO. I don't dismiss the possibility that these are aliens or another foreign intelligence." Where is this third group? In order to adopt an attitude, one should have knowledge about the topic. In this case it means to first have a neutral position and watch what both sides have to say about it.
What we want is evidence that proves the alien hypothesis!
If there would be hard evidence, we wouldn't be discussing it here.
But: There is an extremely huge amount of indirect evidence that only allows the conclusion that a foreign intelligence[1] has visited and is still visiting the planet. What i'm talking about here are not "lights in sky" but (as i said in my first sentences) investigated cases of these encounters. The scientific evidence comes in form of
- radar images
- eye-witness accounts
- physical injuries of humans and animals
- photographs
- videos
- Landing traces
- electromagnetic effects
- higher radioactivity
- other tracks (this is no complete list)
As a scientist, one have to dismiss all photographs and videos that have been shot in the last decade and more because the possibilities of manipulation allows to fake everything that is possible. But what's left are still hundreds of images which has been made by witnesses in the 70s and backwards, which contains objects that have been classified as unidentifiable and proven by graphics specialists to not be fakes.
Regarding the physical injuries, a debunker can say that all these people are hoaxers. Although i would find it hard to find arguments against cases where people claim to have been in contact with objects that landed and afterwards had injuries that clearly show outcome of high radioactivity.
Now, because the astrophysicists and skeptics
i talked to absolutely ignored all of this, i can still show hundreds of papers with radar images. Of course there are cases with radar traces that can be dismissed because of some meterological phenomena, but this is not true for every investigated images. What can be found on these images are flight maneuver of objects in all sizes that cannot be made by any human-made object. These are objects with speeds of more than 6.000 mi/h in zigzac course for minutes and the ability to immediately stop (Some of the objects also have been seen parallel by eye-witnesses like pilots). How do you want to explain this?
Sadly, this information is and can only be obtained in cooperation with military ATC as civilian ATC cannot track speeds of more than Mach 4.
If i explicitly dismiss/embezzle all eye-witness accounts which are not close encounters, there are still thousands of examined reports. There are many cases where people say the object(s) landed in front of them and beings alight from this vehicle. How do you want to dismiss these cases?
[1] "Foreign Intelligence" does not have to mean that these beings are from outer space. Illobrand von Ludwiger tells about three big hypotheses of possible explanations which i won't explain in detail here:
- Extra terrestial hypothesis
- Time travel hypothesis
- parallel universe hypothesis
