Obama and the Gay Military...

[Ausmerican]

Then it goes back to what is the issue?
It just seems to be an antagonizing thing to me...
Is there something particularly bad about the "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" policy?

Well that's easy to test. Reverse it. If you were in the military and all the gays were free to talk about their relationships and sexual conquests but you had to keep your mouth shut about yours or even lie when someone asked you would you think that was "particularly bad"? Or are you OK with the idea that you are good enough to die for your country but still not considered quite as equal as everyone else? I am straight and I know which way I would vote on it.

 

[Dragoonster]

Dude, I'm not a bigot, I just try to see it from more than one angle.
Geez man chill out.

Sorry, I'll chill.

As to the OP and whether Obama will succeed--he will if he wants to. I'm really questioning his motivations or priorities at this point, so have no clue whether he actually wants to or not.

 

[fls]

Homosexuals CAN serve in the military, the issue is the military's current "Don't ask, don't tell" policy.
While I'm very liberal you have to look at it from this perspective, say one of you bunk mates just came out.
No real problem, what they do off base on their own time isn't anyone's business especially not yours.
Then you go to take a communal shower, with your gay bunkmate.
You feel like he's watching you, but you dismiss it as silly and irrational.
But what if...

Until it becomes routine and you forget to get yourself worked up over it.

It's things like this that have to be considered, it affects unit cohesion, being symbolically different is not only unnecessary in the military, sometimes it's outright dangerous. That's just liberal leaning guy.
Imagine hardcore, conservative bible thumper, would you want that guy covering you in a combat situation if you were gay?

Well, considering that you're probably not suggesting that the gay guy wouldn't cover you, what you are talking about is whether or not we should have in place a way for hardcore, conservative bible thumpers to build-up unreasoning fears, or whether we should allow those fears to die a natural death.

If you don't give people a chance to get used to something, they won't get used to it.

Linda

 

[WildCat]

It seems like at least half the Navy is.

This recruitment video worked wonders!



But yeah, pretty much everyone I know who was in the service says there were lots of gays in there.

 

[Undesired Walrus]

Yes I know people that stupid and immature, but they're d*** good at what they do, which is all the military cares about in the first place.

So you'd want a man in the army who would not cover you in a firefight if you were gay. That makes them damn good?

Madness.

 

[Garrette]

I'll believe it when it happens.

It would take Obama all of ten minutes to type up and sign an executive order ending DADT. He doesn't, despite his claim that he will...Eventually...Someday...But not today.

Obama can't do it with an Executive Order; DADT is a piece legislation that requires legislation to overturn it.

 

[xXMoshtradamusXx]

So you'd want a man in the army who would not cover you in a firefight if you were gay. That makes them damn good?

Madness.

read up till now, you're behind.

 

[Undesired Walrus]

So?

 

[Alt+F4]

Obama can't do it with an Executive Order; DADT is a piece legislation that requires legislation to overturn it.

Indeed. If Obama is serious about overturn DADT why doesn't he have the White House write up an appropriate bill and submit it to Congress?

On Tuesday.

 

[GreNME]

An elite, all-gay division of troops would be handy.

It would be SPARTA!

 

[xXMoshtradamusXx]

So?

pretty much just tried presenting an alternate view to see if there was any defensible position in it.
I got that answer a lot and thought I'd give it a shot, the answers are more authentic when you don't tell people what you're up to. Sorry!

 

[MervinFerd]

According to the Offfice of Army Demographics website, in FY08 72.9% of commissioned officers, 62.5% of warrant officers, and 61.1% of enlisted personnel were white. Your "for the most part, composed of poor people, who are more often not white" may be good ideology, but it's certainly not good research.

There are a lot of poor white people, too.

Does the Army Demographics website break down their demographic as far as family income or geographic region? (I'd guess not).

A likely hypothesis is that for the last several years, a disproportionate part of the recruits volunteering for likely duty in Iraq are socially conservative white kids from small towns and conservative communities. This will make the military more conservative than it normally would be--which creates problems beyond DADT. Religious intolerance and susceptibility to Right Wing Conspiracy theories.

 

[drkitten]

Obama can't do it with an Executive Order; DADT is a piece legislation that requires legislation to overturn it.

Er,... the legislation has a loophole in it that allows an executive order to overturn it. The secretary of defense has the authority to determine that separation from service under DADT is not in the best interests of the service.

If the secretary of defense determines that such separation is NEVER in the best interests of the service, a determination that could be made by executive order, DADT is essentially dead.

 

[Normal Dude]

We can't have gays openly serving in the military! We might have a repeat of the Durham Light Infantry!

 

[Ryokan]

The military is conformity, it's a core-value across the board. They don't care who you are, just do your job and you're fine.

Then removing 'Don't Ask, Don't Tell' shouldn't be a problem, should it?

Norway has never banned 'teh geys' from serving. I served together with gays in Bosnia, and there was no problem whatsoever. Why should I care about who they fall in love with? Why should anyone?

 

[fls]

pretty much just tried presenting an alternate view to see if there was any defensible position in it.
I got that answer a lot and thought I'd give it a shot, the answers are more authentic when you don't tell people what you're up to. Sorry!

You should join a hardcore right-wing forum and pass the answers back and forth between here and there, pretending they are all coming from you (like the chess game trick where you play two grand masters at once and your first opponent's move against you becomes your move against your second opponent and vice versa, giving you the appearance of chess skillz when you have none).

Linda

 

[BobTheDonkey]

Then removing 'Don't Ask, Don't Tell' shouldn't be a problem, should it?

Norway has never banned 'teh geys' from serving. I served together with gays in Bosnia, and there was no problem whatsoever. Why should I care about who they fall in love with? Why should anyone?

The problem with the military is the same reason homosexual marriage is outlawed. There are far too many homophobes and/or overly religious types with loud mouths.

I mean, what kind of in-group can you have if just anyone is allowed in?

 

[xXMoshtradamusXx]

You should join a hardcore right-wing forum and pass the answers back and forth between here and there, pretending they are all coming from you (like the chess game trick where you play two grand masters at once and your first opponent's move against you becomes your move against your second opponent and vice versa, giving you the appearance of chess skillz when you have none).

Linda

Sorry, at least I'm being honest.
Honestly I don't think I could tolerate the Bill O'Reily fan club for even a second.

 

[Jackalgirl]

No, because he didn't understand how homophobic most of the military is. It will not work. You cannot make these people accept gays, and I suspect an attempt to do so will end in a lot of violence against the out gay people. I don't know if it will actually get to that point though, Obama seems to be facing a lot of real life limitations on his ambitious idealistic plans and this certainly counts as one of them.

When I went through inprocessing for the Navy, we had to sign a document attesting that we understood about the "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" policy about (no kidding) 6 times.

I overheard one of my fellow enlistees say, "Don't ask, don't tell, don't care."

Although the stereotype for the military is that we hate gays, and although incidents involving gays are very mediapathic and get splashed all over the place, I find that for the most part, the actual environments in which I've been involved have been pretty mellow insofar as gayness is concerned. One of my classmates in initial training was a Second Class Petty Officer who was obviously gay. No one cared.

As with the general population, opinions shift in the military, and I can see it happening. It's heartening, as much as the extremely vocal homophobic minority might despair of it.

 

[The Central Scrutinizer]

So, according to this BBC News page, Obama is going to have a go at getting rid of the Don't Ask, Don't Tell situation.

Will he succeed?

Don't ask.