Obama and the Gay Military...

[TragicMonkey]

The fact is, gays are already in the military. In large numbers. I'd definitely say the percentage of gays in the military is higher than the percentage of gays in the overall population. I've spent most of my life in military towns, and know a lot of gay people. The ones who aren't or haven't been in the military are outnumbered around here by those who are or have been. The general consensus is that homosexuality is an open secret in the military, and in most cases you only actually get kicked out of it if someone kicks up a stink or they're looking for another reason to get rid of you.

As for getting rid of the policy, 1) I'll believe it when it actually happens, and 2) policy or no policy, if the brass has it in for you you'll be gone regardless of whether the reason is valid or legal. Which is no different from civilian life, actually.

If all the gays actually left the military, we'd have to resort to a draft. Seriously. It seems like at least half the Navy is. And as for Marines, the odd thing there is that they all seem to be bottoms, even the straight ones.

Personally, if they're going to do some social engineering on the military, I'd rather they do something about the creeping evangelical Christian hold on the Air Force that's been going on in the last few years. What's up with that? I'd wager that's where the real resistance to getting rid of DADT is.

 

[Aitch]

If all the gays actually left the military, we'd have to resort to a draft. Seriously. It seems like at least half the Navy is. And as for Marines, the odd thing there is that they all seem to be bottoms, even the straight ones.
.

 

[Cleon]

I'll believe it when it happens.

It would take Obama all of ten minutes to type up and sign an executive order ending DADT. He doesn't, despite his claim that he will...Eventually...Someday...But not today.

 

[foxholeatheist]

I hate to be the bearer of bad news... However... Butt bandits and rug munchers already serve.

Tragic monkey got it right: They'll nail you (not the bum boys, the brass) if they want to. It's not difficult.

They only let the Marines on the Navy ships because sheep would be too obvious. Joke, ha.

Anyway, in my unit there are a few guys that are bi and one out and out gay guy. Hand and facial tattoos are also against regs but plenty of guys have those too. If they started booting everyone out for not coming up to the standards they'd have to throw out quite a few folks. The homosexuals (that's as PC as I'm getting, sorry) that do get thrown out tend to rock the boat a little more than they should. No matter what you are, the Army does not want boat rockers.

I was actually going to re-enlist to be a Chaplain's assistant but no re-up NCO would sign the papers knowing that I was an Atheist making a mockery of the Chaplain corps. They wouldn't want to be known as the NCO that signed up the loud mouthed Jesus puncher.

That's the nature of the beast. You can't change the wind but you can adjust your sails.

I agree, they should just throw the damn thing out. A lot of the straight guys worry about showering and **** and being hit on. You should see some of the cavemen here, they really don't have much to worry about.

 

[Bikewer]

My experience is much like Z's , though longer ago....1960s. I was a medic, and that particular group had a well-represented gay population.

 

[alfaniner]

An elite, all-gay division of troops would be handy.

And their uniforms would be fabulous!

 

[xXMoshtradamusXx]

*whistles non-nonchalantly*

 

[Undesired Walrus]

Homosexuals CAN serve in the military, the issue is the military's current "Don't ask, don't tell" policy.
While I'm very liberal you have to look at it from this perspective, say one of you bunk mates just came out.
No real problem, what they do off base on their own time isn't anyone's business especially not yours.
Then you go to take a communal shower, with your gay bunkmate.
You feel like he's watching you, but you dismiss it as silly and irrational.
But what if...

I don't see your point here. What if what? He wants to shag you? So what if he does?

It's things like this that have to be considered, it affects unit cohesion, being symbolically different is not only unnecessary in the military, sometimes it's outright dangerous. That's just liberal leaning guy.
Imagine hardcore, conservative bible thumper, would you want that guy covering you in a combat situation if you were gay?

The real question should be whether you want someone that intolerant and immature in the army in the first place. Dwell on that for a second. You honestly believe that the military should accept people who would refuse to cover another officer because of their sexuality?

The bible-belt accounts for a staggering amount of the armed forces and refusing to institute a policy that at least allows some degree of peace is the only thing you can do.

That sounds a lot like when liberals advocated for the removal of the Mohammed cartoons.

The military shouldn't bow down to bigotry.

 

[Terry]

So honestly, if the policy isn't broke I don't understand the need to fix it.

Big if. What about things like this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timothy_R._McVeigh

Is just mentioning that' you're gay on your AOL page a horrible detriment to military cohesion?

 

[Alt+F4]

..it affects unit cohesion, being symbolically different is not only unnecessary in the military, sometimes it's outright dangerous.

Couldn't this same argument be used to keep blacks out of the military?

Imagine hardcore, conservative bible thumper, would you want that guy covering you in a combat situation if you were gay?

Yet another reason to keep blacks out of the military. Would hardcore racists cover the black guys back in a combat situtaion?

 

[D'rok]

You can do it America. It'll be ok.

I did some contract IT work for the Department of National Defence (Canada) some years ago. My immediate supervisor was a lesbian Navy officer. She and her partner (also Navy) were married. Last time I talked to her, her partner was pregnant. All of this was treated as completely normal (as it, if course, actually is), and they received all the same spousal and parental benefits as any other service members. As far as I could tell, given my limited exposure to mililtary culture, this caused no tension. DND headquarters is filled with officers and grunts from all branches of the military, and gay folks seemed to serve with no problems.

It tickled my little liberal heart to see this in the most conservative of institutions.

America, YMMV, but if we can do it, so can you.

 

[xXMoshtradamusXx]

I don't see your point here. What if what? He wants to shag you? So what if he does?



The real question should be whether you want someone that intolerant and immature in the army in the first place.



That sounds a lot like when liberals advocated for the removal of the Mohammed cartoons.

The military shouldn't bow down to bigotry.

So is the military really the best place to be exercising your rights as an American citizen?
Personally from what everyone else has said about the way things have been done in the past, such as either they were good soldiers or they weren't, I don't see the point in all this. It's just a play for votes *shrug*
It's playing a game they made, in their world, with them making the rules...
The military is conformity, it's a core-value across the board. They don't care who you are, just do your job and you're fine.

Yes I know people that stupid and immature, but they're d*** good at what they do, which is all the military cares about in the first place. They're not about you and what you want.
How many times can I say conformity in a single post before I get the point across. They don't want people who just stir the pot just to be doing it. Like I said, if it isn't broke, then why are you trying to fix it?

It's been working itself out for years, I really doubt it needs government intervention now...

 

[xXMoshtradamusXx]

Couldn't this same argument be used to keep blacks out of the military?



Yet another reason to keep blacks out of the military. Would hardcore racists cover the black guys back in a combat situtaion?

Because this argument as Obama saying that was utterly superfluous. It's a problem that really only exists in the minds of the far-left as far as I can tell.
I guess I'm gonna take back that because it may have sounded to far right.

Let's start again,
Is there really a gay issue in the military or has this been blown wildly out of proportion by cable news as usual?

 

[xXMoshtradamusXx]

Big if. What about things like this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timothy_R._McVeigh

Is just mentioning that' you're gay on your AOL page a horrible detriment to military cohesion?

I've backed up on that assumption.
I'm going with while you're in uniform you're at work. Do you preach your ideas and beliefs at work?

 

[Terry]

I've backed up on that assumption.
I'm going with while you're in uniform you're at work. Do you preach your ideas and beliefs at work?

No, but if someone talks about their wife, surely it isn't out of line for me to talk about my significant other, also?

 

[xXMoshtradamusXx]

No, but if someone talks about their wife, surely it isn't out of line for me to talk about my significant other, also?

Then it goes back to what is the issue?
It just seems to be an antagonizing thing to me...
Is there something particularly bad about the "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" policy?

 

[Terry]

Then it goes back to what is the issue?
It just seems to be an antagonizing thing to me...
Is there something particularly bad about the "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" policy?

The part where I can get dishonorable discharged for mentioning my S.O. where the straight guy can't.

 

[Dragoonster]

Let's start again,
Is there really a gay issue in the military or has this been blown wildly out of proportion by cable news as usual?

There's an issue with gay military being kicked out of it, that seems like a problem for them, no?

Why now? Well my advice for a homophobe is--it's progressive civil rights, and it's going to happen eventually. Might as well be seen by your grandchildren as part of the fair-minded folk who support it than one of the bigots who they're going to be ridiculing.

 

[xXMoshtradamusXx]

The part where I can get dishonorable discharged for mentioning my S.O. where the straight guy can't.

*flops to otherside*
Yep, that'll do it for me.

 

[xXMoshtradamusXx]

There's an issue with gay military being kicked out of it, that seems like a problem for them, no?

Why now? Well my advice for a homophobe is--it's progressive civil rights, and it's going to happen eventually. Might as well be seen by your grandchildren as part of the fair-minded folk who support it than one of the bigots who they're going to be ridiculing.

Dude, I'm not a bigot, I just try to see it from more than one angle.
Geez man chill out.