"Black face" skit on Australian variety show

[Beerina]

Blackface is verboten in the US, under a scorched earth policy to not touch things that were frequently, but not always racist. So even if it's done without attempting to mock ye olde days' blackface, or even if done sarcastically, or even if done with permission of your prominent, black, significant other, thou shalt not touch.

It was, indeed, used for some grotesquely racist caricatures* in the past.






* Interesting, doe not derive from the same root word as "character".

 

[quadraginta]

Why? Please explain this statement further.

I expect the point being made was that stereotypical parodies about 'hillbillies' are equally inaccurate, offensive, and hurtful.

That is completely correct, of course.

 

[quarky]

MJ spoofed white people. I was able to laugh it off until he started sleeping with young boys. He crossed a line when he started spoofing Catholic priests.

 

[quadraginta]

Truedat. That's why I commute to Pittsburgh for work.

My grandparents lived in Meadow Estates (Elm Grove), and many of my summers were spent there when I was young. I remember the Wheeling of the 60s.

I hadn't been back in decades. So when I passed through last year with an obligatory visit downtown to Coleman's Fish Market (strictly for Mrs. qg's edification of course. ) I was stunned at the extent of the regression.

I knew, intellectually at least, that there were serious 'Rust Belt' issues, but there was literally grass growing in the streets.

I was very melancholy for a while.

 

[Vic Vega]

They should be hung for thier disregard for other peoples sensitivities!

Anybody who makes an politicaly incorrect joke deserves to be hung from the nearest lightpost!

Or maybe they should even be hanged.

 

[Sledge]

Of course, when blackface is done well, it's ok...

I'm still a little confused on this issue. It seemed that, for a long time, we accepted that white people blacking up was A Bad Thing. Then movies like "White Chicks," with two of the Wayans brothers whiting up, came out. Then the rule seemed to shift to being like the use of the "N" word: it's ok for black people to do it, but not white people. Then Tropic Thunder came out, and I remember distinctly thinking "Hang on, I thought we all agreed that this was A Bad Thing?" (white people blacking up, not Ben Stiller movies. Although...)

I don't want to come across like one of those morons presently defending Anton Du Beke calling an Moroccan woman a Paki, but I'm not clear on where the line is drawn. As already said, I don't see how blacking up to do an impression of a black person can be construed as offensive.

 

[Ryokan]

Blackface is verboten in the US, under a scorched earth policy to not touch things that were frequently, but not always racist. So even if it's done without attempting to mock ye olde days' blackface, or even if done sarcastically, or even if done with permission of your prominent, black, significant other, thou shalt not touch.

Then how do you explain Tropic Thunder, where not only does a white actor black it up physically, but act and talk like a stereotypical black person?

Apparently, 'thou canst touch if done well and is funny'.

 

[oldhat]

As already said, I don't see how blacking up to do an impression of a black person can be construed as offensive.

You're English, casual racism is funny to people in the commonwealth so long as it's all in good fun. Or something.

 

[GreyICE]

I've recently been informed that Australia is some sort of Eden, where nothing has any racist or sexist connotations.

In light of this, this is just one more instance of these merry utopians celebrating their perfect culture.

 

[HarryKeogh]

Andrew Bolt has a link to a youtube sketch of Harry Connick Jr done up to look like a black man so I suspect Harry is being slightly over the top here.

a) Harry Connick Jr. is playing a white preacher. Not a black one.

b) After reading the comments in Andrew Bolt's columns I'm glad to see the U.S. doesn't have a monopoly on crazy conservatives.

 

[Careyp74]

I've bloodywell missed you. How weird is that?

Ah, yes, didn't recognize him standing there without the Strawman costume on.

 

[Brainster]

Well, as long as they didn't call Harry Connick, Jr., a fruitcake, where's the harm?

There was a wince-worthy scene in Weird Science where the two boys walk into an all-black bar, and Anthony Michael Hall says "We are gonna die," but in the next sequence he's talking like a stereotypical old black man (although he didn't have on the blackface). Not funny and too obvious a swipe on the Dexter Lake Club scene in Animal House.

 

[oldhat]

Anyone catch the Simpsons/Little Black Sambo cartoon that flashed and said "Where's Kahmel?"

Stay classy, Australian TV!

 

[ZirconBlue]

Then how do you explain Tropic Thunder, where not only does a white actor black it up physically, but act and talk like a stereotypical black person?

Apparently, 'thou canst touch if done well and is funny'.

There's a big difference between "black face" and "made up to look black". The former is a mocking caricature of stereotypical black features, while the latter would be things like using Hollywood makeup to attempt to make a white actor look, somewhat convincingly, black.
Downey wasn't in black face (and the focus of the humor/ridicule in that case was to poke fun at method actors). I can't view the video in question right now, so I'm not sure which category we're actually talking about.

 

[oldhat]

Downey wasn't in black face (and the focus of the humor/ridicule in that case was to poke fun at method actors).

That was the whole point of that character, to send up self-absorbed method actors playing absurdly inappropriate roles. People on the left who thought it was Downey being racist or it was a racist character and people on the right who think that that makes "Hollywood" categorically hypocritical about blackface are equally dumb.

 

[Juniversal]

The Jackson's are, in fact, black; (or at the very least, all five of them were black at the time they were still performing as the Jackson 5.) Why is it inappropriate, when doing an impersonation, to make yourself look like the people you are impersonating?

Some people are in a perpetual state of "offended" just searching for things to be offended by.

As a black man I can tell you my face isn't coal colored and my kneck isn't white . Personally I find it distastful because it is in no way supposed to be a convincing potrayal of the Jacksons and the history of black face (caricaturing and mocking blacks) definately doesn't make it any more palatable. Am I offended?? Not paticularly. I wont be marching to get the show cancelled. But I didn't find it in the best of taste.

Of course, when blackface is done well, it's ok...

Not the same. He actually was meant to look like a black man lol. More of a satarical take then simply mocking.

 

[Information Analyst]

I'm still a little confused on this issue. It seemed that, for a long time, we accepted that white people blacking up was A Bad Thing. Then movies like "White Chicks," with two of the Wayans brothers whiting up, came out. Then the rule seemed to shift to being like the use of the "N" word: it's ok for black people to do it, but not white people. Then Tropic Thunder came out, and I remember distinctly thinking "Hang on, I thought we all agreed that this was A Bad Thing?" (white people blacking up, not Ben Stiller movies. Although...)

I don't want to come across like one of those morons presently defending Anton Du Beke calling an Moroccan woman a Paki, but I'm not clear on where the line is drawn. As already said, I don't see how blacking up to do an impression of a black person can be construed as offensive.

IIRC, Eddie Murphy has also had a penchant for "whiting up," inbetween impregnating good Yorkshire lasses, and then denying being the father until the DNA results prove otherwise....

 

[GStan]

I expect the point being made was that stereotypical parodies about 'hillbillies' are equally inaccurate, offensive, and hurtful.

That is completely correct, of course.

Nope. Speaking as a hillbillie, and as someone who has never met a West Virginian who didn't enjoy a good hillbillie joke, let alone be offended or hurt by one, the parodies are inaccurate, yes, but they can frequently be very funny. I've laughed at many jokes about lack of teeth, lack of shoes, lack of plumbing, sex with family members, etc.

Again, if my default disposition is that the world generally sucks, I can find plenty of reasons every day to reinforce my belief, including being offended by innocent language intended to make people laugh. Conversely, though, life is generally good and laughter is better. Remove the stick from thine arse (not you specifically QG) and enjoy a good laugh. If you pull it out far enough, you might even be able to laugh at yourself.

 

[lionking]

Apparently, 'thou canst touch if done well and is funny'.

I think there's more than some truth in this. Each episode of "Little Britain" has the potential to offend many people, gays in particular. The reason there are few complaints is it is over the top and funny.

 

[quadraginta]

Nope. Speaking as a hillbillie, and as someone who has never met a West Virginian who didn't enjoy a good hillbillie joke, let alone be offended or hurt by one, the parodies are inaccurate, yes, but they can frequently be very funny. I've laughed at many jokes about lack of teeth, lack of shoes, lack of plumbing, sex with family members, etc.

Again, if my default disposition is that the world generally sucks, I can find plenty of reasons every day to reinforce my belief, including being offended by innocent language intended to make people laugh. Conversely, though, life is generally good and laughter is better. Remove the stick from thine arse (not you specifically QG) and enjoy a good laugh. If you pull it out far enough, you might even be able to laugh at yourself.

I suppose I should have qualified my comment with "can be offensive..."

I agree with you, and have shared more than a few such jokes myself. I guess it can be a matter of who is delivering the humor, to whom, and why.

When I moved down into the flatlands I encountered plenty of people whose knowledge of Appalachian culture was limited almost entirely to such stereotypes. The point of the jokes being told wasn't to share but to insult and degrade. What you're talking about (and I am concurring with) is self-depreciating humor within a subculture. I think the 'blackface' debate is appropriately more focused on the 'depreciating' part of that, when the intent of the humor is specifically to demean a subculture that has been easily victimized because it was already an underclass.

I'm not expressing myself well, which means that I'm probably struggling to articulate my thoughts to myself as well as everyone else.

How about this. There is something of an element of intent, as in 'Who is the target of the humor, and/or at whose expense?'. There is also the consideration of 'Who is the audience, and how can they be expected to receive this?'.

The scenarios you mention, with friends or family, telling jokes about a culture that everyone present is a member of is not a good analogy for the public presentation of humor traditionally and specifically crafted to be demeaning to a particular minority group.

That's not good enough either. I'm thinking out loud. Please be patient with me.

Here's another scenario, one I'm all too familiar with. A group of "good old boy" white construction workers are free of the presence of pesky minorities and some of them suddenly find it permissible to share jokes that they wouldn't dream of sharing if a member of one those minorities was present. You're in that group, apparently a member in good standing because of, say, your skin color, and one of these jokes strikes you as well over the line. Would you say something?

Harry Connick Jr. did.