Is Anorexia really a disease?

[paximperium]

Autism has physiological reasons, and therefore cannot be cured by any (currently known) means, so autism is not part of the "thinking patterns" that I talked about.

The point was: in the various "disorders" which include no physiological anomaly, but only some very unusual thinking or behaviour (such as homosexuality, as was thought not long time ago), it is not neutral to call such a thing "disorder", as this word carries the meaning that something is "wrong" with the person.

It is "wrong" and abnormal. I see absolutely no need to be "neutral" towards an abnormal disorder that kills people with poor insight into their own condition which often leads to disability and death.

What comes to anorexia, there indeed are websites promoting the "right to anorexia", people who don't like the fuss around their chosen lifestyle.

Then these people are idiots. Not only idiots but dangerous idiots. One of the hallmarks of many such Disorders are the sufferers poor insight into their disorder. Anorexia Nervosa is not a "chosen lifestyle", it is a disorder of self image that leads to sufferers starving themselves. It kills people and there is nothing acceptable about it.

 

[Dancing David]

<<<< diagnosed with OCD.

I have never experienced clinical depression, but I do have some serious anxiety issues as well. I am one of those rare cases who felt compelled to harm myself. I haven't engaged in such activities for many years(7ish), but you can see my arm on my avatar. The rest of my body is much worse.

The crazy thing is I hated doing it, it was scary, and it made me constantly think I was going to get infections or bleed out. I still did it. Repeatedly.

Yes, it is scary. Ice is a good substitue, bowl of water, ice and plung ethe hands in.

 

[Dancing David]

I thought ASD was diagnosed through behavioral definitions. If you have enough of this list of behaviors you fit the criteria.

I was not aware of a proven neurological explanation for it. It is believed to be neurological sure, but why should it have a neurological basis and anorexia not?

Sure I should have more clear,

Autism is associated with some major brain differences, like over growth of neurons, the loss of language is a developmental issue as well, developmental does not always imply biological mechanism but it usually does.

I personally believe there isa biological vulnerability in anorexia nervosa.

All DSM categories are behavioral in diagnosis, however some have a biological cause more than others.

ETA: there are Axis III conditions which are medical conditions, so they would be more open to testing as opposed to behavioral assesment.

 

[ponderingturtle]

Sure I should have more clear,

Autism is associated with some major brain differences, like over growth of neurons, the loss of language is a developmental issue as well, developmental does not always imply biological mechanism but it usually does.

I don't doubt that it has biological basis, I was questioning if the biological basis was known. I am not aware of anyone who can slice a brain up and say "ah ha, look at this, this is a clear sign of autism". It might be there and I am unaware of it though.

So it seem to be based largely on a belief that it has a biological basis, not that we have found and identified the biological basis.

My understanding is that ADD and ADHD are much the same.

 

[JJM 777]

It is "wrong" and abnormal. I see absolutely no need to be "neutral" towards an abnormal disorder that kills people with poor insight into their own condition which often leads to disability and death.

So, how would you rate cigarette smoking or drug use, is it "wrong" and abnormal? Or mountaineering to Mount Everest, or some other hobby that has a relatively high mortality rate?

So what are the physiological reasons?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autism#Causes

Why do you think you see anorexics even in cultures that think larger women are the most attractive?

I don't know, because I am still wondering how James Randi can exist in a predominantly religious society. Must have a genetic reason, such an abnormality. I give you a hint: cultures don't "think", individuals do.

So how do you know that there are such physiological reason for Autism spectrum and nothing of the kind for Anorexia?

In our lifetime science will not know everything about human psychology. There are people who suspect a genetic cause in all behaviour, even criminality or religiosity etc. I cannot prove them wrong, my thumb rule is: 100% incurable psychiatric conditions probably have a physiological cause (brain damage etc.), and curable psychiatric conditions (without surgery etc.) probably don't have such a cause.

 

[ponderingturtle]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autism#Causes

A lot of conjecture not a hard and fast cause. Of course I do wonder if you see similar sibling correlations with alcoholism. All that your link says is that people currently believe that it has a biological basis not that the biological basis is known.

So if people believe Anorexia has a biological basis why shouldn't it be a syndrome?

I don't know, because I am still wondering how James Randi can exist in a predominantly religious society. Must have a genetic reason, such an abnormality. I give you a hint: cultures don't "think", individuals do.

So they are intentionaly making themselves incredibly unatractive to their culture, why are they doing this? What is their motivation to make themselves ugly?

In our lifetime science will not know everything about human psychology. There are people who suspect a genetic cause in all behaviour, even criminality or religiosity etc. I cannot prove them wrong, my thumb rule is: 100% incurable psychiatric conditions probably have a physiological cause (brain damage etc.), and curable psychiatric conditions (without surgery etc.) probably don't have such a cause.

Define cureable? Do antipsychotic drugs count? What about anti Depressant drugs? What does it mean that these drugs are not effective for everyone with the condition mean?

How do you differentiate between someone who is managing to live a life with a condition like austism do they count as cured? How does that differentiate from anorexics who are managing with their condition?

 

[Dancing David]

In our lifetime science will not know everything about human psychology. There are people who suspect a genetic cause in all behaviour, even criminality or religiosity etc.

And those people are wrong. There are biological structures but they are not determinants of behavior.

I cannot prove them wrong, my thumb rule is: 100% incurable psychiatric conditions probably have a physiological cause (brain damage etc.), and curable psychiatric conditions (without surgery etc.) probably don't have such a cause.

So what are neurotransmitters other than physical? Why brain surgery to determine the biological nature of an illness or disorder.

What research supports your point of view?

 

[Epok]

It's technically a "Disorder" using the medical definition.
But your reasoning to reject it is nonsense. It is diagnosed EXACTLY like schizophrenia or cancer using set criteria. It's about the equivalent of going to a Major Depressed person and telling them to "suck it up!!!".

Frankly, alcoholism and anorexia's end result is disease and death so I don't get your point at all.

My point is its not like schizophrenia or cancer in that you condition yourself to become this way because of the choices you make. That's why I have a probably sympathizing with anorexics or alcoholics.

 

[godless dave]

Keep in mind that if your parents verbally abuse you as a child, this will cause you to feel depressed and have low self-esteem - which is to say, you will have less of certain neurotransmitters circulating at any given time. There is no clear distinction between "physical" and "psychiatric" causes.

 

[godless dave]

My point is its not like schizophrenia or cancer in that you condition yourself to become this way because of the choices you make. That's why I have a probably sympathizing with anorexics or alcoholics.

Anorexics and alcoholics don't condition themselves to become that way because of choices they make.

 

[paximperium]

So, how would you rate cigarette smoking or drug use, is it "wrong" and abnormal?

It depends. Is it harmful and detrimental to their health and life?
Cigarettes, cocaine, meth, alcohol in excess. Yes.
Cigarettes, cocaine, meth, alcohol rarely and with full control. No.

Or mountaineering to Mount Everest, or some other hobby that has a relatively high mortality rate?

Mountaineering has a high mortality rate? Have the sherpas died out from all the mountaineering they do?

Oh it depends. Do they have insight into their activity or hobby?
Someone who jumps off cliffs repeatedly without taking proper precautions, race motorbikes without helmets or drives at 100mph down mountain roads are thrill seekers who are behaving abnormally and are most definitely "wrong" and abnormal. I sometime prefer to call they either exceedingly stupid or suicidal hence most countries and states ban such activities. And no, I don't have to "neutral" towards these activities either.

Someone who does have insight would race in a track, mountaineer with a partner and full equipment, cliff jump with crew and equipment, race motorbikes on a track with full kevlar and ceramic inserts and helmet etc. Hey, they even get good exercise.

Now they are anorexics with full insight into their activities and can do so successfully. They are called models. Many are able to maintain their "lifestyles" without any detriment. Many get ill and stop doing it or die. I don't have to be "neutral" towards such generally hazardous activity just as I don't have to be "neutral" towards folk who race cars on the street or mountain climb alone with no partner.

 

[Epok]

People die from it, so, yes it is.

http://www.webmd.com/a-to-z-guides/features/anorexia-body-neglected

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anorexia_nervosa

Just because you die from it doesn't give me a reason to believe it is a disease. People die from car wrecks. That does not make it a disease.

 

[Epok]

I think there is a misconception that when something is labeled a disorder that it removes responsibility from the person who has it. I don't think anything could be further from the truth. Maybe someone more versed in mental health can clarify, but as I see it a disorder is any identifiable behavioral pattern that is harmful to the subject--whether by leading them to harm themselves, or because their behavior has consequences to their life, for example by separating them from friends and family, or creating obstacles to their life management.

Again, as I see it, they can be identified as clinical disorders, in which case something is physiologically wrong with the subject, or a personality disorder, which has no physical pathology (if I'm using the term correctly). The purpose of identifying them is not to invalidate negative reactions from others when faced with the behavior--it is to learn about the problem and determine what works for solving it and what doesn't.

When I hear people exclaim frustratedly that "everything's a disorder now!" I think they're missing the point and feel they're not allowed to be angry with a person exhibiting, say, antisocial behavior.

That is why it seems more to me like alcoholism and not like schizophrenia. You can't help it when you have schizophrenia.

 

[Professor Yaffle]

When I did my Psychology degree, we looked at eating disorders using both an OCD model and an addiction model. I must say that the parallels with addictions seemed quite strong to me.

 

[Professor Yaffle]

When I did my Psychology degree, we looked at eating disorders using both an OCD model and an addiction model. I must say that the parallels with addictions seemed quite strong to me, at the time. Not

 

[Gord_in_Toronto]

Anorexics and alcoholics don't condition themselves to become that way because of choices they make.

And many anorexics and alcoholics want to stop being anorexic or alcoholic but can't. It you meet a mountain climber who wants to stop climbing but is unable, I suggest he needs some form of help.

 

[paximperium]

My point is its not like schizophrenia or cancer in that you condition yourself to become this way because of the choices you make. That's why I have a probably sympathizing with anorexics or alcoholics.

The problem is that many anorexics and alcoholics don't have much choice at the matter.

Many anorexics are primed into their activities by peer pressure and societal images. Imagine being the local fatty being teased all the time. These start slowly and spiral out of control. Small diet here, a rare vomit here. Before you know it, they are on the net and looking up the best way to vomit and purge or how to hide food. Many anorexics look "normal" until you see the severe dental decay from vomiting, the electrolyte imbalances. I've seen a fully grown 20year old anorexic weigh in at 60lbs that needed to be fed with IV lines.

Alcoholism is also often genetic, many alcoholics have very strong addictive personality traits which is often familial.

You don't have to be sympathetic but you can be empathetic. You don't have to pity or even care but you can understand. These people do not have the ability to control their behavior. Do nail biters or OCD folk have this ability?

I detest alcoholics. Many are scumbags who are manipulative sacks of crap who try to garner sympathy and make excuses for their situation. But they are people. I don't have to sympathize with them or even care about them. But I understand that they made bad choices and they have a severe disorder that will kill them. They will either walk in front of a bus one day or die from liver failure and vomit blood all the place and die.

I can either help them to the best I can with the best evidence I have or let them die. I chose the former.

PS: Just wait until you read about the extremely strong genetic link between criminal activity from sociopaths.

 

[Careyp74]

When I did my Psychology degree, we looked at eating disorders using both an OCD model and an addiction model. I must say that the parallels with addictions seemed quite strong to me, at the time. Not

I totally understand what you are saying. Not.

 

[ponderingturtle]

My point is its not like schizophrenia or cancer in that you condition yourself to become this way because of the choices you make. That's why I have a probably sympathizing with anorexics or alcoholics.

Why do you not hold schizophrenics to the same standard, they are choose how to act after all. They should just ignore the voices.

 

[Epok]

There is a 'test' for scizophrenia, don't make me laugh. You use the same interviews for schizophrenia and anorexia.

Actually there is also a blood test that people take to see if they have schizophrenia. I have a friend who suffers from this as well.

Your lack of understanding of anorexia is appalling. Stay away from counseling and any sort of mental health treatment as a profession and hope YOU never have a mental illness.

The whole point of this thread is so I can have a better understanding of anorexia. You are resorting to personal attacks and not doing anything to teach me, only insult me. I am not trying to take the place of a mental health professional.

Any evidence that YOU HAVE that there is not a biological vulnerability or just your grandiose delusions that you 'know' things?

My whole point of coming to this forum is to learn. Yes, I have my opinions of things and they can be callous at times but I am willing to change my opinion if I am given the proper information.

Wow, shame people much for mental health issues? Please don'y go picking on the schizophrenics.

I have no respect for alcoholics but schizophrenics are an entirely different matter. From what I know there is no cure for schizophrenia and not once in my OP did I insult anyone for having schizophrenia (and for that matter cancer or diabetes).

Anorexia is a category of anxiety disorder and all your moral code of justice will not change the fact that is is a biological mental illness. But I am sure you laugh at all the people with OCD as well.

Ok dude, its obvious that you missed my point in the title and the OP. You have not given me any evidence to suggest that I should think otherwise. I would like to hear from someone who is more professional.