Gordon Brown's make or break speech

geni said:
Not if you want to running anything aproaching a european style civilisation.
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:) I like it hot. When I am at work I am usually shouting at people in a noisy busy kitchen, where the ambient temperature is close to 45oC wearing 4 layers of clothing.

I also find attractive girls wearing summer clothes more than 4 weeks of the year somewhat alluring as well.
 
Rolfe said:
Did either of them actually say that stuff (as opposed to leak it to the Beeb)? That's grossly offensive.

It was nearly 10 years ago though.

Rolfe.
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Hmm 2000 that would would have been about a year after one of the english nationalist groups tried to claim responsibility for one of David Copeland's attacks.

Even today the English Democrats Party which appears to be the most popular has a worrying amount of coded xenophobia floating around.
 
gtc said:
Uh huh. Obviously you have never visited Australia.
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Hows the soil salinity going? Water in general? European style civilisation requires that it be wet. Historicaly trying European farming practices in drier enviroments hasn't ended well.
 
geni said:
Hows the soil salinity going? Water in general?
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Despite the dire predictions of people like Flannery water levels in Australia are fairly good at the moment.

geni said:
European style civilisation requires that it be wet.
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Prove it.

geni said:
Historicaly trying European farming practices in drier enviroments hasn't ended well.
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You are moving the goal posts. Farming practices does not equal civilisation.
 
gtc said:
Despite the dire predictions of people like Flannery water levels in Australia are fairly good at the moment.
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Hows say the Murray River doing?

Prove it.
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The old Fertile Crescent. The local civilisations kept falling when they hit issues with salination and in the longer term the loss of tree cover has resulted in overal significant fertility reductions.

The US dust bowl region is another example.

You are moving the goal posts. Farming practices does not equal civilisation.
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Tell that to anyone unlucky enough to live in anything close to a meditarian style climate when europeans turned up. European style civilisation is closely tied to being able to farm in a certain way.
 
geni said:
Hmm 2000 that would would have been about a year after one of the english nationalist groups tried to claim responsibility for one of David Copeland's attacks.

Even today the English Democrats Party which appears to be the most popular has a worrying amount of coded xenophobia floating around.
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I agree, but it's not something particularly unique to English nationalism. Every time I've heard an SNP or Plaid Cymru member talking about 'incomers' I get a similar feeling. It may feel a more cuddly word, but the connotations are surely the same.
 
You can just about get thrown out of the SNP for talking about "incomers" like that.

Rolfe.
 
Francesca R said:
Oh sure, you'd leave the UK on a point of principle about how the government treats its subjects, . . . to go to Dubai. That's a larf mate. :D
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Completely incorrect. Try again without the projection. It's experience and hatred of the Tory philosophy, not how they treat migrant workers. I said Dubai was one option among many after someone else brought it up.

You went OT to bring the Dubai treatment of migrants in here, when we were discussing the alternative to Gordon Brown. Then you snipped posts so you could post with no context while leaving out stuff that proved your comments wrong.

Nothing funny about this, except your fail.

2/10:- see me after class.
 
gtc said:
I don't know if the Sun was the first to run that joke in the UK but it has had currency in Australia since at least the 1980s.
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Yeah, I think it was quite an old expression when the Sun used it. I don't know if you're aware, but I was alluding to another famous Sun headline that followed an election, "It was The Sun Wot Won it" :)

Darat said:
To be fair and reasonable we don't know what this lot of tories will be like.
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Reginald said:
despite what Cameron says, (and he himself may be different), it seems to me that the people standing behind him are just the same, gagging to put things back the way they were 20 years ago.
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I've said this before and I'll say it again because I think it's worth bearing in mind: No matter what the Tories claim to be thinking, when most of the front bench formed their initial party affiliations they looked at the Thatcher government and thought "That's the party for me!". That gives me pause for thought.
 
richardm said:
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I've said this before and I'll say it again because I think it's worth bearing in mind: No matter what the Tories claim to be thinking, when most of the front bench formed their initial party affiliations they looked at the Thatcher government and thought "That's the party for me!". That gives me pause for thought.
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And not just looked at the party and joined it, many of them lost their political cherries working for the Tory government of the time.
 
Remember the Tories were fond of public hangings in the C19th too. We should think twice about giving them some rope this time.
 
Francesca R said:
Remember the Tories were fond of public hangings in the C19th too. We should think twice about giving them some rope this time.
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If you can point to any current front benchers who settled their political ideology while growing up in the 19th Century I'll be considerably surprised (Members of the House of Lords don't count).

Edit: If you want a shadow Home Secretary who'd like to hang people in private you only need to go back as far as David Davis.
 
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To agree with RichardM and Darat, any Tory who considered the party in the 80's as being their kind of thing and a great ideology to stand for makes me cautious.


Interesting to note that in 2010 there will be people voting who were not even alive during the Thatcher era.
 
I'm demonstrating my vast ignorance of British politics here, but does joining a party necessarily demonstrate full adhesion to its ideology? Take the case of Tony Blair: first stood as a candidate in 1983 (I believe) when Labour's manifesto was somewhat leftist, and then rose through the ranks and presided over the complete transformation of the party. I wonder if party allegiance might not sometimes be not so much a question of seeking kindred spirits, but rather looking for the easiest path to personal gain and power.
 
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