USA state recognizes quackery, n'pathy

JJM

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Minnesota has become the latest state to allow naturopaths (NDs) to play doctor. Some blogs to check:
http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/?p=141

http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2008/06/doctors_of_naturopathy_in_minnesota.php

http://scienceblogs.com/denialism/2008/06/naturopathy.php

Naturopathy gets my vote for the ultimate in quackery. Some people say that should be homeopathy; but n'pathy includes h'pathy, and every other stupid idea. See http://www.naturowatch.org for articles explaining it; be sure to read Dr. Relman's review of their Textbook of Natural Medicine.

If there is a central idea to n'pathy, it is the removal of imaginary toxins from the body by methods including enemas. That was a standard, 19th century idea in medicine; but it was abandoned by rational medicine around 80 years ago as modern anatomy and physiology discredited it.

N'paths also claim to focus on preventive medicine; but they disdain vaccines. None of the real advances in prevention (personal hygiene, sanitation, vaccination, aseptic technique, etc.) have come from NDs. In fact, I recently heard an n'path on the radio, speaking about cancer prevention, and she did not mention tobacco (the cause of 1/3 of cancer in the US)!? And she is supposed to be a cancer specialist.

Registration of quacks (n'paths, h'paths, chiroquacktors, etc) is literally a license to kill. At naturowatch, you can read about the licensed n'path in Hawaii who's wife had a curable disease; yet she died because he "treated" her with herbs. He was not reprimanded by his colleagues because that is the "standard of practice" in their cult. More recently, an unlicensed n'path in Utah (where n'paths can be licensed) was arrested for, similarly, killing a woman. His lawyer complained that he would not be in trouble if UT had just granted him a license. How profound. Hi, I am John Doe, ND, 007.

In Massachusetts, where I live, there are fewer than 40 NDs; yet 2 of them live within walking distance of my place in the most rural part of the state (I feel blessed). MA does not license NDs; so they practice medicine without a license. I wonder how they get away with it.
 
This goes to demonstrate the movement to have all this non-evidence based medicine funneled into the mainstream really needs a counter attack.
 
I suggest a counter-attack of Guns, Germs, and Steel.

Not the book...we should apply each to all naturopaths.
 
Greediguts said:
I suggest a counter-attack of Guns, Germs, and Steel.

Not the book...we should apply each to all naturopaths.
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I'm up for that!! I prescribe .45 inch diameter pills with high Pb content delivered by injection at app 1750fps.:)
 
As a Minnesotan, I'm embarassed. If Jesse were still governor this nonsense wouldn't have happened.
 
I read a whiny article that said "self taught" sCAM artists ought to get licenses too. Hm. Wonder if they would let me build bridges in that state if I self-teach myself some engineering???? Of course, it would be "alternative" engineering. All sorts of chit I could make up about that.
 
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Sometimes I think we need a really nasty plague to come along and remind everyone just how useful modern scientific medicine really is. Once people start dropping like flies, just watch the n'paths and their ilk go running to the real doctors for help. As long as things are going relatively well and people are basically healthy (due to scientific medicine), these sCAMmers will make a good living because they can take the credit for good health. But when your kid is bleeding out of his eyeballs, are you going to listen to Kevin Trudeau or your local n'path, or are you going to go to the people who've studied rigorous scientific medicine? For most people I think the choice would be simple.
 
MattusMaximus said:
As long as things are going relatively well and people are basically healthy (due to scientific medicine), these sCAMmers will make a good living because they can take the credit for good health.
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And no doubt that is precisely what the students and staff of this new clinic at the Portland College of Natural Medicine in Oregon will be relying on:
...the clinic that opened Friday is at the National College of Natural Medicine, the main U.S. school for naturopaths. So the ceremony also featured a drum circle and a "corporate shaman" -- also the college board chair -- who talks about quantum physics and has anointed the campus with cornmeal.

This mix of business-as-usual with ancient instruments and New Age ideas captures the spirit of the $2.2 million clinic, the biggest natural medicine clinic in Portland and maybe in the world, said the college's president, David Schleich.

College leaders say the clinic will offer about 20,000 patients holistic health care, from throat cultures for strep to moxibustion, a Chinese treatment that uses smoldering mugwort to affect the flow of energy. A large "medicinary" holds jar after jar of shaved water buffalo horn, blue cohosh and other Chinese and Western medicinal herbs.

The clinic will also help the school increase the number of healers it trains. The college grew from about 400 students in 2000 to 517 today and aims for nearly 600 students by 2011. That will help fill a shortage of primary health care providers in Oregon and nationwide, college leaders say.

"We have grand plans for a research center, a library and a community cafeteria," as well as a garden and student life center, said Nancy Garbett, board chairwoman and president of Corporate Shaman Inc. "So watch us grow."

-snip-

Architects and a feng shui consultant helped the college gut out the blocky 1960s industrial building, which previously held software offices, to make a light-filled, sustainable space. White walls, skylights and transom windows brighten the building. Eco-friendly finishes include soy-based concrete stain and nontoxic paint donated by Portland's Miller Paint Co. The Chinese medicine rooms have extra ventilation systems to clear smoke made by moxibustion treatments.

More...
http://www.oregonlive.com/health/index.ssf/2009/09/new_clinic_opens_at.html
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Where to start?
 
skeptigirl said:
This goes to demonstrate the movement to have all this non-evidence based medicine funneled into the mainstream really needs a counter attack.
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And I understand the situation is just as bad in Europe as it is over here.
It is a basic problem: Government often makes decisions based not on science but on politics. The Woo Medical groups have proven very effective at organizing and influencing polticians. They don't bribe so much as convince the Pols that large number of voters will be angry if "Alternative Medicine" is not given it's "freedom". how you solve this problem in a democracy is a difficult question.
And this is NOT a Conservative vs Liberal issue.You can find Medical Woo friendly politicians all across the political spectrum.
 
mattusmaximus said:
sometimes i think we need a really nasty plague to come along and remind everyone just how useful modern scientific medicine really is. Once people start dropping like flies, just watch the n'paths and their ilk go running to the real doctors for help. As long as things are going relatively well and people are basically healthy (due to scientific medicine), these scammers will make a good living because they can take the credit for good health. But when your kid is bleeding out of his eyeballs, are you going to listen to kevin trudeau or your local n'path, or are you going to go to the people who've studied rigorous scientific medicine? For most people i think the choice would be simple.
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embrace the swine flu
 
I love that Natureopath practicioners actually put ""N.D." after their name. I guess that it could stand for "Not a Doctor" never passes their mind......
 
The most reasonable thing to do would be to exclude these quacks from any other type of medical care than their own. That is, if they get sick, they can only turn for help to one of their own ilk. Otherwise it's just too hypocritical to even consider to let them "practice". Oh, and this should be enforceable. Let evolution take its course and weed the scum out of humankind.
 
MattusMaximus said:
Sometimes I think we need a really nasty plague to come along and remind everyone just how useful modern scientific medicine really is. Once people start dropping like flies, just watch the n'paths and their ilk go running to the real doctors for help.
Click to expand...


Only assuming that medical doctors have an effective treatment with plenty to go around. Otherwise, many people will simply choose alternative "medicine" over no treatment at all, and credit any natural recovery to the woo, becoming firmer believers in the process.
 
dudalb said:
Nah, it would have been worse. Jesse is a nutjob, end of discussion.
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Yep, what a nutjob...

"Organized religion is a sham and a crutch for weak-minded people who need strength in numbers. It tells people to go out and stick their noses in other people's business."
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"I’d like to clarify [my comments published in Playboy] about religious people being weak-minded. I didn’t mean all religious people. I don’t have any problem with the vast majority of religious folks. I count myself among them, more or less. But I believe because it makes sense to me, not because I think it can be proven. There are lots of people out there who think they know the truth about God and religion, but does anybody really know for sure? That’s why the founding fathers built freedom of religious belief into the structure of this nation, so that everybody could make up their minds for themselves. But I do have a problem with the people who think they have some right to try to impose their beliefs on others. I hate what the fundamentalist fanatics are doing to our country. It seems as though, if everybody doesn’t accept their version of reality, that somehow invalidates it for them. Everybody must believe the same things they do. That’s what I find weak and destructive."
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More recently, when asked about Sarah Palin...

"I don't think she was put under any more media scrutiny than I was ... My children were attacked in Minnesota. Everything I did was put under the microscope. The point is, Larry, you don't quit. When you make an obligation and you take an oath, doesn't it mean anything anymore?"
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JJM said:
Ranging beyond the USA, http://scienceblogs.com/terrasig/2009/11/more_naturopathic_nonsense_in.php Ontario is poised to give n'paths the right to prescribe real, non-OTC drugs. The link I gave is the latest I know about, it goes back to some Canadian sites and includes a plea to write to the legislators with names and contact info (especially for Canadians).
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They already let this happen in BC. You can look at who our "Science and Technology Minister" is, and there is no wonder why Canada is getting more Quacky.
 
Blue Wode said:
And no doubt that is precisely what the students and staff of this new clinic at the Portland College of Natural Medicine in Oregon will be relying on:



Where to start?
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I often start by asking advocates of "Ancient Chinese Medicine" whether they know what was the average life expectancy in ancient China.

The answer is about 40 years, or less. Pretty much the same as everywhere in the world, to this day, in the absence of modern scientific medicine.

I ask them whether they find that particularly encouraging.

DC
 
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