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Gordon Brown's make or break speech

Undesired Walrus said:
Did you see it today? It was pretty good, other than the jokes.
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I read his Chicken Little editorial on "the environment" and Copenhagen meeting in Newsweek.

He's not good at selling his platform, at least not on this side of the pond.

DR
 
England has turned against him. He is out.

They may have a chance if he hands over to some younger, good looking, charming, english MP. Most of the UK boards I frequent always seem to mention his dourness, that he is a Scot and not pleasing on the eye.

The fact the Sun is now turning Tory says more about the Sun than it does about anyone else. Those of us who were not well off and who lived through the Thatcher years (especially in Scotland), know what is coming.

Good luck to em!
 
funk de fino said:
England has turned against him. He is out.

They may have a chance if he hands over to some younger, good looking, charming, english MP. Most of the UK boards I frequent always seem to mention his dourness, that he is a Scot and not pleasing on the eye.

The fact the Sun is now turning Tory says more about the Sun than it does about anyone else. Those of us who were not well off and who lived through the Thatcher years (especially in Scotland), know what is coming.

Good luck to em!
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And especially those in the north of England, the Midlands, the south west of England, Wales and Northern Ireland know what is coming.
 
funk de fino said:
That little slimeball Mandelson gave a great speech I thought.
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That's because Mandelson does not feel any shame! (And I mean that both positively and negatively.)

As for Mr Brown - I agree dead meat, people now have the idea in their head we "need a change", which we do but not to a Cameron UK.
 
Undesired Walrus said:
It was pretty good
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It was pretty good. It was also pretty depressing, I thought, in a number of ways. Firstly, there's the realisation that no matter what he says it's not going to be enough to get Labour in again. Secondly, the realisation that he knows it's not going to be enough, which is why we're suddenly getting pledges to hold referendums on electoral reform and sorting out the House of Lords once and for all. All this stuff used to be anathema, but now he can trot out this and all sorts of other populist stuff in the hope of not being totally wiped out in the general election, safe in the knowledge that he's never going to be called on to actually do it.

It was a bit like watching the Lib Dems, frankly. And that always makes me sad, too.
 
Darat said:
That's because Mandelson does not feel any shame! (And I mean that both positively and negatively.)

As for Mr Brown - I agree dead meat, people now have the idea in their head we "need a change", which we do but not to a Cameron UK.
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It will be the "worst of a bad bunch" in a way. It is already making me sad thinking about it.

As bad as Labour can be, as messed up as the economy is, as much as I thought Iraq was wrong, the Labour govt have done some very good things that the Tories would never have done.

Some people cannot see the woods for the trees.
 
funk de fino said:
the Labour govt have done some very good things that the Tories would never have done.
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So true. And a lot of the things that they're pilloried for - like the wars in the Middle East - were supported by the Tories when they got under way, so we might assume we'd be in a similar position on that front.
 
For me the big two for the last 10 years of so of Labour was the overall reverse in the decline of the NHS and schools.

People really do seem to have forgotten the horror stories of kids being injured in schools that were literally falling down, schools being shut in winter (regularly) because the heating just didn't work. Never mind the acute and chronic problems in the NHS largely as a result of underfunding by the Tories. Those are the two areas more than any other I fear for under the coming Tory government.

Thankfully for the likes of Wales and Scotland (and to a lesser degree, NI) they will be partially shielded from the Tories this time. Never mind London and the "Home Counties" will be Ok....
 
Darat said:
reverse in the decline of the NHS ... Never mind the acute and chronic problems in the NHS largely as a result of underfunding by the Tories.
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People are prepared to overlook so much. If you're looking through the Sun's lens, the only mention the NHS gets is in terms of the increase in MRSA cases.
 
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Mostly people were prepared to overlook Brown profligacy masquerading as "prudence". As in, the economy with the longest unbroken stretch of growth (until last year) now faces a bigger rise in public debt than the rest of the G7. That's really quite a trick.

Sorry, the NHS will not be "safe" (as in, getting anything like the same ramp-up in spending it had under Labour) with any government.
 
funk de fino said:
The fact the Sun is now turning Tory says more about the Sun than it does about anyone else.
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Did you see MacWhirter on Newsnicht last night? He made a good point, that the actual influence wielded by the Sun may well be negligible, but they're good at jumping on (and off) bandwagons. The reason the defection of the Sun is such bad news for Labour is that it shows the Sun decision-makers have concluded that Labour is going to lose. It's just a rats-and-sinking-ships thing, but it's still good evidence the ship is sinking.

Rolfe.
 
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