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Griffin making stuff up again?

Lenbrazil

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In his recent interview with Kevin Barrett, the same one mentioned a couple of days ago at SLC, just after Griffin sang OBL’s praises he claimed that the Saudi’s 2004 video address to Americans was suspicious because OBL spoke in Arabic but “he evidently spoke English impeccably”.

I’ve never heard this claim before and assume it is false. He did go to an elite school at which some classes were taught in English 1968– 76 (when he would have be about 11 – 19) but I have met Pakistanis and Indians who went to such schools and some of them are barely comprehensible even after living for a number of years in the US. In any case after 28 years he might well have lost what ever fluency he had.

http://www.americanfreedomradio.com/archive/Truth-Jihad-32k-062709.mp3

I imagine Grifto simply confused OBL with KSM, does anybody know either way?

There are of course other fallacies with Grifter’s reasoning even if OBL spoke English he presumably considered it the Devil’s language -even decades earlier a congressman who visited the Mujaheddin said he was warned not to speak English near OBL’s camp – Arabic on the other hand is the language of the prophet. Funny Grifto complained the spiel was too secular then complained he didn't give it in English without noticing the contradiction.
 
knife fight colobus said:
Is OBL a ESL person? What is his first language?
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Since he is Saudi... I'd wager it is the saudi version arabic. I also believe he probably speaks Peshtu and Urdu because of where he has been living and fighting

But he was educated in the US (IIRC an engineering degree??)
 
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DRG is such a ****ing dickhead, but the guy has gotta sell his snake oil, so what's he to do...


OBL speaks Arabic. If OBL can speak English, so what.

When ever he produces a tape, or gives a speech etc..., regardless of who it is "addressed" to or "aimed" at, he is ultimately speaking to his fellow Jihadists...and what is there primary language???? you got it, arabic.

TAM:)
 
I could, thirty years ago, carry on a very scholarly discussion in German. I have not, in the interim, had a lot of opportunity to speak the language with anyone else and have been trying to acquire a better grasp of Korean (for family reasons) and Arabic (for professional reasons.) It gets in the way of speaking other secondary languages. You need to be able to THINK in the language you are speaking. If you think it out in English and trranslate it into your second language, it can be slow, ackward, sometimes laughable. Even some non-Arab Muslims think in Arabic when they are discussing religious concepts because they have memorized the Qur'an in Arabic. We have no reeason then to doubt that OBL thinks in Arabic and that it is difficult for him to speak English for lack of practice. Certainly, the second language of most of those around him is going to be Arabic because they are devout Muslims who have memorized the Qur'an in Arabic.

Most Muslims will tell you that you have not read and understood the Qur'an if you are not literate in Arabic.

Most Germans speak better English than I German, so I would probably, in a similar situation, make any public statements in English whether to an English-speaking or German-speaking audience. I think the same factor may be motivating OBL, since his addresses are not meant specificly for us alone.He does need his followers to know what the position of the month is.
 
Slayhamlet said:
Uh, Arabic. That's what they speak in Saudi Arabia.
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That was my point, why is it suspicious that OBL is using his native language?

I forgot that being facetious doesn't work too well on the internet.
 
leftysergeant said:
I could, thirty years ago, carry on a very scholarly discussion in German. I have not, in the interim, had a lot of opportunity to speak the language with anyone else and have been trying to acquire a better grasp of Korean (for family reasons) and Arabic (for professional reasons.) It gets in the way of speaking other secondary languages. You need to be able to THINK in the language you are speaking. If you think it out in English and trranslate it into your second language, it can be slow, ackward, sometimes laughable. Even some non-Arab Muslims think in Arabic when they are discussing religious concepts because they have memorized the Qur'an in Arabic. We have no reeason then to doubt that OBL thinks in Arabic and that it is difficult for him to speak English for lack of practice. Certainly, the second language of most of those around him is going to be Arabic because they are devout Muslims who have memorized the Qur'an in Arabic.

Most Muslims will tell you that you have not read and understood the Qur'an if you are not literate in Arabic.
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This is a slight derail, but still applicable.

it is how they are taught arabic. My kids go to an english speaking school here in the UAE. They are mandated to have 4 to 5 hours of arabic instruction per week by the ministry of education.

Now think about that. 4 to 5 hours of foreign language schooling per week. One would think that after several years of any type of education, the students would have a good working grasp of the language.

This is our third year here. With 2 years of arabic (5 hours per week) my eldest son (who picked up an almost fluent level of chinese in 2 years in china) can barely count to 10, knows only half of his colors, a few animal names and 4 completely irrelevant sentences (the clown is on the stage, the family is on the train, the boy calls his friend, and somethign about a taxi).

The way they are taught is to memorize the arabic alphabet (which is phoentic), and they then are drilled on that over and over again. One boy in my sons class has been here for 5 years. He gets A's in arabic. because he has memorized the materials they have presented him with 4 years running now.

they teach the alphabet so you can READ the qur'an and that is it. They dont teach conversation, reading or writing... just drill them on the alphabet so they can sound out the materials in the book, it doesn't matter if they know what a single word is.

It is rather disappointing and extremely annoying... and it doesn't seem likely to change.
 
TruthersLie said:
Since he is Saudi... I'd wager it is the saudi version arabic. I also believe he probably speaks Peshtu and Urdu because of where he has been living and fighting

But he was educated in the US (IIRC an engineering degree??)
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No, there you are thinking of KSM. Although there are reports that Osama studied engineering (or public administration), it was in Saudi Arabia. KSM on the other hand did get a degree in mechanical engineering in the US.
 
Brainster said:
No, there you are thinking of KSM. Although there are reports that Osama studied engineering (or public administration), it was in Saudi Arabia. KSM on the other hand did get a degree in mechanical engineering in the US.
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ah well... it is 5am here and I have been up all night finishing some homework for my MA..

KSM
UBL
OBL
M O U S E. mickey mouse
 
Since no one seems to have heard this and my Google searches came up blank I think we can conclude with a fair degree of certainty that Grifto confused OBL with KSM or otherwise pulled that claim out of his posterior. As if any doubt remains he was interviewed by Peter Arnett for CNN in 1997

"Arnett's questions, in English, were translated into Arabic and answered by bin Laden in Arabic. Bin Laden's answers appeared with scrolling subtitles on playback screens in court. "

So why would someone with "impeccable English" need a translator?If he were willing or able to reply in English why didn't he?
 
TruthersLie said:
This is a slight derail, but still applicable.

it is how they are taught arabic. My kids go to an english speaking school here in the UAE. They are mandated to have 4 to 5 hours of arabic instruction per week by the ministry of education.

Now think about that. 4 to 5 hours of foreign language schooling per week. One would think that after several years of any type of education, the students would have a good working grasp of the language.

This is our third year here. With 2 years of arabic (5 hours per week) my eldest son (who picked up an almost fluent level of chinese in 2 years in china) can barely count to 10, knows only half of his colors, a few animal names and 4 completely irrelevant sentences (the clown is on the stage, the family is on the train, the boy calls his friend, and somethign about a taxi).

The way they are taught is to memorize the arabic alphabet (which is phoentic), and they then are drilled on that over and over again. One boy in my sons class has been here for 5 years. He gets A's in arabic. because he has memorized the materials they have presented him with 4 years running now.

they teach the alphabet so you can READ the qur'an and that is it. They dont teach conversation, reading or writing... just drill them on the alphabet so they can sound out the materials in the book, it doesn't matter if they know what a single word is.

It is rather disappointing and extremely annoying... and it doesn't seem likely to change.
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Based on your experience do you think the way English is taught at elite schools in Arabia is more effective? Some Arabs do speak very good English.

Here in Brazil even students at very good private schools don't learn to speak English very well unless they go special expensive English courses. However the one who go to American or British schools were most classes are taught in English learn to speak it well.
 
I was led to believe that OBL actually speaks a form of 'classical' Arabic when making broadcast speeches. Something akin to the version the Prophet would have originally spoken, a bit like a European politician making a speech in Latin.
 
What would it matter if he spoke in Pig Latin, or French, or, hell, what is that stupid language from Star Trek, or from Harry Potter. Who cares.

I am not being mean, or an ass, but what really would it matter what language he speaks, if what he speaks can be understood and translated??

They guy, (OBL) needs to be either brought to justice, or have his wig split. JMHO.
 
Lenbrazil said:
Based on your experience do you think the way English is taught at elite schools in Arabia is more effective? Some Arabs do speak very good English.

Here in Brazil even students at very good private schools don't learn to speak English very well unless they go special expensive English courses. However the one who go to American or British schools were most classes are taught in English learn to speak it well.
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Actually Len there are two things I noticed.

Many of the gulf arabs have pretty good spoken english, but their reading and writing are horrible. I think this is because when English (and most foreign languages are taught), they focus on conversation and subsequently the Arab students pick up conversational english. But since reading and writing are MUCH harder to pick up, they don't do it. I know several locals here (not my students) who have very good spoken english, but can't read even simple english. Their statement is "it is too hard, and what do I need to read for."

Of course here in the UAE it is not uncommon for a student to take home their english and have their philipino maids or their private english tutors do all of the writing.

In general, i think that the focus of languge teaching in the gulf/muslim nations is very different (yes I know I am making a VERY GENERAL statement and sweeping with a BROAD brush, but I do think it is accurate) for foreign students. With the religion being wrapped up in EVERY social and educaional aspect, it focuses the language learning on "teach them to be able to read the qu'ran" and excludes things like regular conversation.
 
Debaser said:
I was led to believe that OBL actually speaks a form of 'classical' Arabic when making broadcast speeches. Something akin to the version the Prophet would have originally spoken, a bit like a European politician making a speech in Latin.
Click to expand...

I have been told the same thing by my arabic friends.

The way they make it out is that every muslim nation has their own version of arabic (different dialects, different influcences, etc) BUT there is "classical" or "Qu'ran" arabic that every muslim must learn.

The way they expain it to me makes it sound like Old English
"hear yea, hear yea, thou shall listen to thy lord" stuff
 
triforcharity said:
What would it matter if he spoke in Pig Latin, or French, or, hell, what is that stupid language from Star Trek, or from Harry Potter. Who cares.

I am not being mean, or an ass, but what really would it matter what language he speaks, if what he speaks can be understood and translated??

They guy, (OBL) needs to be either brought to justice, or have his wig split. JMHO.
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Hey Tri.

It matters because it is a version ALL arabic speakers know. And it is usually used by the Imam's, or the older (wiser) generation.

Kind of like how you speak to your grandparents different than you speak to your friends.

By using an older/more formal form of arabic it
a. makes most arabic speakers pay attention (like getting spoken to by your grandma when you acted up.. you sit up and pay attention)
b. it conflates his message with the holy qu'ran, and because of that conflation, it allows people to mix up the messages of Islam, and this nutjob.
c. it makes him sound smarter and better educated so folks will take his word for it.
d. The Qu'ran has been hand copied for nearly 1400 years, and it has never been translated out of its original languge. (unlike christian texts going from aramaic to latin, to german to english with all the mistakes of the language). Because they have hand copied the language, if you are using the "old school" language, you are considered a scholar.

and I don't disagree with you... in fact I think it your statement should be
he need to be brought to justice AND have his wig split.
 
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