Brzezinski: US Should Shoot Down Israeli Bombers Targeting Iran's Nuclear Facilities

[Brainster]

Jimmy Carter's national security advisor gives an interview with the august Daily Beast and endorses "a reverse Liberty".

How aggressive can Obama be in insisting to the Israelis that a military strike might be in America’s worst interest?
We are not exactly impotent little babies. They have to fly over our airspace in Iraq. Are we just going to sit there and watch?

What if they fly over anyway?
Well, we have to be serious about denying them that right. That means a denial where you aren’t just saying it. If they fly over, you go up and confront them. They have the choice of turning back or not. No one wishes for this but it could be a Liberty in reverse.

You know, I always figured this guy was somebody Carter picked solely because his foreign accent made him sound serious, but good lord, what an airhead!

 

[Sword_Of_Truth]

Pure insanity.

Brezinski wants American pilots to commit acts of war against a closely allied democracy in protection of a sworn enemy of the United States, one that has been killing US servicemen in Afghanistan and Iraq, and defending thier illegal nuclear weapons program?

Either he is totally off his rocker, or the man simply HATES jews.

 

[FireGarden]

I think it is a good idea.
The alternative is to allow Israel to declare war on behalf of America.

How many American targets are there in the middle east? How many are you willing to have taken out in retaliation? And why on Earth should Iran accept that America is a neutral third party when American bombs are being dropped on Iran from American planes? -- Even if those bombs and planes have an Israeli flag painted on them.

If you want America to go to war with Iran, that is one thing. But no matter how dumb starting a war with Iran sounds to me, letting Israel declare the war for you sounds even dumber.

If another American war pushes oil to 4-500 dollars a barrel, I think the world may decide that America costs more than it's worth. China has oil interests too, you know.

 

[Sword_Of_Truth]

Obama would never give the order.

As soon as the order went out, every plane in the air would suddenly report engine trouble and return to base. There would be no way to contain the news of a near mutiny among so many commisioned officers. It would be known around the world that the president had lost control of the military. He would either be forced to resign or be impeached.

 

[Brainster]

Obama would never give the order.

As soon as the order went out, every plane in the air would suddenly report engine trouble and return to base. There would be no way to contain the news of a near mutiny among so many commisioned officers. It would be known around the world that the president had lost control of the military. He would either be forced to resign or be impeached.

Obama won't give the order, but I believe and hope that your idea of what would happen if he did is wrong. We have a civilian command of the military and they have the final authority on decisions like this.

 

[AWPrime]

Obama would never give the order.

As soon as the order went out, every plane in the air would suddenly report engine trouble and return to base. There would be no way to contain the news of a near mutiny among so many commisioned officers. It would be known around the world that the president had lost control of the military. He would either be forced to resign or be impeached.

On the other hand those pilots could simply be tried for treason and be shot.

 

[Brainster]

I think it is a good idea.

Do you agree that it's "our" airspace in Iraq?

 

[FireGarden]

Do you agree that it's "our" airspace in Iraq?

No it's not US airspace.
Doesn't change my argument: Do you want Israel to have the right to force America into a war with Iran? Or do you think that should be an American decision?


eta: America certainly has the right (and duty?) to defend Iraq's airspace at the moment:
http://www.stripes.com/article.asp?section=104&article=63931

Allowing Israeli planes to use that airspace will make America responsible for the attack. (Unless the Iraqi government agrees to the use of their airspace. But I don't think that is likely, or that it would make a difference to the Iranian response).

 

[Sword_Of_Truth]

Obama won't give the order, but I believe and hope that your idea of what would happen if he did is wrong. We have a civilian command of the military and they have the final authority on decisions like this.

American pilots won't defend an outlaw state with an illegitimate government that is actively killing American servicemen on the ground.

And I shudder to think what would happen should US pilots attempt to engage the most modern and experienced air force on earth. Israelis aren't pushovers like the Iraqi air forces of 1991 or 2003. No one has the experience and the success rate that Israel does in modern jet combat. The C-in-C would be sending americans into a fight where they have a less than 50-50 chance of getting the job done, let alone surviving.

 

[MarkCorrigan]

Do you agree that it's "our" airspace in Iraq?

I don't think it really matters if Iran thinks it is. I mean, they fully expect the US to stand by and watch either way, and declarations that it's Iraqi airspace probably won't fly because of the large American (and others) military force in the area. I don't know if firing on the planes is a good idea or not, but if the US don't then Iran will claim you could easily have done so.

 

[FireGarden]

American pilots won't defend an outlaw state with an illegitimate government that is actively killing American servicemen on the ground.

They would be defending American interests.

And I shudder to think what would happen should US pilots attempt to engage the most modern and experienced air force on earth. Israelis aren't pushovers like the Iraqi air forces of 1991 or 2003. No one has the experience and the success rate that Israel does in modern jet combat. The C-in-C would be sending americans into a fight where they have a less than 50-50 chance of getting the job done, let alone surviving.

Would Israel want to go to war with America?

 

[Sword_Of_Truth]

They would be defending American interests.

American interests are that Iran ceases its illegal nuclear weapons program and keep the products of that program out of the hands of terrorists.

Would Israel want to go to war with America?

Israel isn't planning on bombing America.

 

[AWPrime]

American pilots won't defend an outlaw state with an illegitimate government that is actively killing American servicemen on the ground.

So they are going to betray American interests for Israeli interests then?

And I shudder to think what would happen should US pilots attempt to engage the most modern and experienced air force on earth. Israelis aren't pushovers like the Iraqi air forces of 1991 or 2003. No one has the experience and the success rate that Israel does in modern jet combat. The C-in-C would be sending americans into a fight where they have a less than 50-50 chance of getting the job done, let alone surviving.

Their are severely overrated, Americans with F-22s would annihilate their air force.

 

[Sword_Of_Truth]

So they are going to betray American interests for Israeli interests then?

A stupid question based on a false premise.

Their are severely overrated, Americans with F-22s would annihilate their air force.

How many F-22s are deployed to the middle east, atm?

How many will be deployed by the time Israel launches its raid?

 

[geni]

Pure insanity.

Brezinski wants American pilots to commit acts of war against a closely allied democracy in protection of a sworn enemy of the United States, one that has been killing US servicemen in Afghanistan and Iraq, and defending thier illegal nuclear weapons program?

Either he is totally off his rocker, or the man simply HATES jews.

No. He wants the US to defend airspace it is currently occupying.

 

[The Fool]

Pardon My laughing but....

Sword of truth is claiming the US air force is riddled with traitors and that it couldn't defeat the IDF when it is operating over its own bases....

dude, what are you babbling about?

Would the marine corps defect too? What about the Army, are they solidly loyal?

 

[geni]

American pilots won't defend an outlaw state with an illegitimate government that is actively killing American servicemen on the ground.

And I shudder to think what would happen should US pilots attempt to engage the most modern and experienced air force on earth. Israelis aren't pushovers like the Iraqi air forces of 1991 or 2003. No one has the experience and the success rate that Israel does in modern jet combat. The C-in-C would be sending americans into a fight where they have a less than 50-50 chance of getting the job done, let alone surviving.

Isreal's airforce hasn't been up against a worthwhile opponent in decades if ever. I'd expect any kill ration to favor the US although you are assumeing that the Isreali would continue after it was clear that the US was going to engage them.

 

[AWPrime]

A stupid question based on a false premise.

The premise is quite correct. The pilots will have to decide whose interests matter more to them. If they decide to refuse their lawful orders then they have committed treason. In that case they might just as well land in Israel and ask asylum.

How many F-22s are deployed to the middle east, atm?

How many will be deployed by the time Israel launches its raid?

Even Israel needs time to prepare and I do think that this will be noticed by US intelligence.

 

[Sword_Of_Truth]

Sword of truth is claiming the US air force is riddled with traitors

No... in fact I've said time and time again that US pilots would NOT act to protect Iran.

 

[Puppycow]

I don't know about shooting down Israeli jets, but I agree that we shouldn't let Israel unilaterally decide to do this. It wouldn't come to shooting down Israeli jets of course in any reasonably conceivable scenario. If Israel attacks, I believe it will happen with US condoning the action. I can't believe that Netanyahu or any Israeli leader would defy a US president like this.