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Archeologly proves the Bible?

Please do post some of the reasons with sources. I still don't remember one clear explanation as to why this knighted archaeologist who spent 15 years in biblical lands got anything wrong.



Reposting on DOC's request:

Quote:
Much has been said about Luke's excellence as an historian. Luke did indeed emulate the models of historical narrative which were current in his day. But to claim that Luke is a consummate historian by modern standards--as many evangelicals do--is a position which cannot be maintained. In a letter to me, F. F. Bruce concedes that conservative apologists have been too eager to declare Luke's inerrancy. So eager was W. M. Ramsey to prove Luke correct about the enrollment in Bethlehem that he, according to Bruce, "unwisely damaged his well-founded reputation as a very considerable scholar." In his Anchor Bible commentary Catholic scholar J. A. Fitzmyer lists other historical mistakes in Luke's writing and offers the most definitive argument against Ramsey's claims about the famous Christmas census.

This is the opening paragraph of a most revealing article you'll find here:
http://209.85.229.132/search?q=cache...&ct=clnk&gl=es
 
...Also I showed a picture of a rock formation on the side of a hill close by the Church of the H.S. that looked very much like a large skull. Golgotha, where Christ was crucified, was known as the place of the Skull.

And as mentioned above I brought in the information of archaeologist Sir W. M. Ramsay"s 15 year study of biblical lands in which he said gospel writer Luke is one of the world's great historians.

General Gordon's 'discovery' of the Garden Tomb does form part and parcel of the times in which Sir Willliam Ramsey lived.
Like Sir William Ramsay's conclusions, they have been overtaken by modern aarcheology.
Interestingly enough, the Wiki article DOC got the photo from points that out.
 
...Also I showed a picture of a rock formation on the side of a hill close by the Church of the H.S. that looked very much like a large skull. Golgotha, where Christ was crucified, was known as the place of the Skull.

And as mentioned above I brought in the information of archaeologist Sir W. M. Ramsay"s 15 year study of biblical lands in which he said gospel writer Luke is one of the world's great historians.

General Gordon's 'discovery' of the Garden Tomb does form part and parcel of the times in which Sir Willliam Ramsey lived.
Like Sir William Ramsay's conclusions, they have been overtaken by modern archeology.
Interestingly enough, the Wiki article DOC got the photo from points that out.
 
here's another source for DOC:

The second point of the conservative apologists is that Quirinius was governor of Syria twice, once in 6 CE and once earlier, during the reign of Herod the Great. This suggestion (apart from the obvious need to save the faith of the theologians) is based on a fragmentary inscription found in Antioch which supposedly referred to Quirinius as the governor of Syria at an earlier date than 6 CE. [8]

However this explanation is, as usual, flawed. The suggestion that the inscription could be understood to refer to Quirinius a governor was first made by the apologist Sir William Ramsey (1851-1939). The inscription simply mentioned that Quirinius was honored for his role in achieving a military victory. It was Ramsey who guessed that Quirinius' reward for his role was an earlier appointment, prior to 6 CE, as governor of Syria. Nothing in the inscription even suggests this. It is not surprising that most historians are of the opinion that the inscription does not provide any evidence to support the assertion that Quirinius was governor of Syria earlier than 6 CE. [9]

From:
http://www.geocities.com/paulntobin/Quirinius.html
 
A third and last (for the moment) source:

As we've seen, the stones (and there are two, not one) only report that Quirinius was a Duumvir, not a governor, and not in Syria, but well outside that province. And they give hardly any reliable clues as to the date. Only pure speculation can set the date between 9 and 4 B.C., and what little argument could be advanced for a date between 6 and 1 B.C. actually goes to prove that Quirinius was fighting a war in Galatia at the time (see box below) and that refutes the possibility that he was governing Syria (see below), so there is in the end no evidence in these stones regarding any Syrian governorship of any date.

From:
http://209.85.229.132/search?q=cach...es+Census&cd=2&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=es&lr=lang_en

Scroll down to 'Antioch Stones' for the analysis of Sir William's discovery.
 
The Demise of Biblical Archaeology


As Geocities is closing here is the new web site:

http://www.rejectionofpascalswager.net/bibleanalysis.html

And on there is this:

The Demise of Biblical Archaeology
Indeed , there is now so much contrary evidence against the historical accuracy of the Bible that the term "biblical archaeology" has now been discarded in professional archeology! [The preferred term now being Syro-Palestinian archaeology [1]] The whole paradigm of archaeology in the Near East has shifted away from thinking of the Bible as a reliable archaeological field guide to that of a collection of ancient fairy tales and legends.
The BBC journalist Matthew Sturgis account in his book It Ain't Necessarily So (2001) summarizes the current situation nicely:


A new generation of archaeologists has emerged...they are challenging the intellectual assumptions of their predecessors...During the years since World War II it has become harder and harder to escape this sense of doubt. The expected discoveries of specific biblical artifacts and buildings were simply not being made...Discrepancies between the biblical account and the ever increasing archaeological record become more noticeable and harder to ignore...Rather than using the Old Testament as a field guide, the current crop of archaeologists is increasingly putting the Bible aside...The very term biblical archaeology has become tainted, and is now rejected by many academics...The old quest to confirm the historical truths of the events in the Bible has been replaced by a new agenda: to build a full and detailed picture of life in the ancient Near East. If the Bible is consulted at all, it is approached with varying degrees of skepticism. The onus of proof has shifted: the text [of the Bible] is now considered historically unreliable until proven otherwise. [2]

Over the last decade, quote a number of books have been published outlining this state of affairs.

•T.W. Davis, “Shifting Sands: The Rise and Fall of Biblical Archaeology”, Oxford 2004
•I. Finkelstein, “The Bible Unearthed”, Free Press 2001
•A.D. Marcus, “The View from Nebo”, Little, Brown & Co 2000
•M. Sturgis, “It Ain’t Necessarily So”, Headline 2001
•T.L. Thompson, “The Mythic Past”, Basic Books 1999
•T.L. Thompson, “The Historicity of the Patriarchal Narratives”, Trinity 2002
Basically the main thesis of these books can be summarized as follows: much of what passed as history (such Abraham and the “patriarchal narrative”, Moses and the exodus and the conquest of Canaan) is now considered, based on the mass of available archaeological evidence, to be largely mythical. The Israeli archaeologist, I. Finkelstein (see his book above) goes even further; he asserts that historical evidence is lacking for even the united kingdom of David and Solomon! Indeed today some of the major events and characters of the Old Testament are no longer considered historical!
•Abraham and the patriarchal narratives
•Moses and Exodus
•Joshua and the conquest of Canaan.
While it is true that David and Solomon existed, the archaeological evidence shows that the kingdom of David and Solomon were nowhere near how they are described in the Bible. Indeed Jerusalem during the time of David and Solomon was little more than a village with less than 5,000 people!

There are clear fictive elements in other Biblical books as well.

•The books of Judges, Samuel, Kings, Chronicles, Ezra and Nehemiah contain contradictions, elements of numerology and anachronisms.
•The books of Ruth, Esther, Job and Jonah are works of pure fiction.
•The book of Daniel is fraudulent fiction masquerading as a prophetic work.

--------------------------------------------------

So there DOC!





Robert
 
Nice one, eccles.
Will DOC go for the Wiki Martyr list or the joshing 24,000 manusripts or Jefferson's purged NT?
 
Well I don't have the time to go through my 94 posts but off the top of my head I can remember showing a site that has pictures of "actual" 1st century tombs that are located just outside the wall of Jerusalem and directly under the Church of the Holy Sepulchre.

Also I showed a Oxford Archaeological publication that stated the actual tomb of Jesus is "very probably" directly under this Church.

Also I showed a picture of a rock formation on the side of a hill close by the Church of the H.S. that looked very much like a large skull. Golgotha, where Christ was crucified, was known as the place of the Skull.

And as mentioned above I brought in the information of archaeologist Sir W. M. Ramsay"s 15 year study of biblical lands in which he said gospel writer Luke is one of the world's great historians.

...And you still have no idea what archaeological data actually is.

"It looks like a skull" is not archaeology. And as for Ramsay, I already addressed that, but you, as usual, dishonestly ignored that.
 
From Conservapedia's article on Ramsay:
Conservapedia: Because reality has a liberal bias.



ETA: Cleon, I'm waiting for metapedia to start entering into his list of links.
 
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Maybe after his conversion to Christianity which occurred "after" the start of his trip to biblical lands but not before.

From Conservapedia's article on Ramsay:

Ramsay was struck by the accuracy of the book of Acts. In his quest to refute the Bible, he discovered many facts which confirmed its accuracy. He concluded that Luke’s account of the events and setting recorded in the narrative were exact even in the smallest detail.[2] Of Luke, he wrote: Luke is a historian of the first rank; not merely are his statements of fact trustworthy...this author should be placed along with the very greatest historians.[3]

http://www.conservapedia.com/William_Mitchell_Ramsay

In Acts, Luke has Gamaliel, a renown Pharisee and teacher, speaking in reference to the followers of Jesus, say (Acts 5:36, 37):

For before these days Theudas arose, giving himself out to be somebody, and a number of men, about four hundred, joined him; but he was slain and all who followed him were dispersed and came to nothing. After him Judas the Galilean arose in the days of the census and drew away some of the people after him; he also perished, and all who followed him were scattered.

The problems with Gamaliel's speech are that he couldn't have been referring to Theudas shortly after the Crucifixion, ca. CE 30, since Theudas hadn't raised his revolt yet, and that he has the order of events reversed.

Theudas declared himself the Messiah and marched with his followers to the Jordan river, expecting to cross it dryshod as the Israelites had in the Book of Joshua. He and his followers were intercepted by a body of Roman cavalry. Many of them were killed and the remainder dispersed. Theudas was captured, taken to Jerusaelm and beheaded. This occurred while Cuspius Fadus was procurator, i.e. CE 44 - 46. Yet Gamaliel's speech is supposed to have been made in the 30's.

Judas the Galilean did indeed raise a revolt at the time of the first Roman census in Judea, instituted in CE 6, when the Romans deposed Herod Archelaus and directly annexed Judea. Since the revolt of Judas the Galilean occurred in CE 6, it couldn't have come after the death of Theudas ca. CE 45.

So the author of Luke / Acts has garbled two pieces of local history, indicating that he was writing at a later time and wasn't familiar with either the region of Judea or its history. Is this part of the accuracy of the Book of Acts that so struck Ramsay? Is this the work of one of the world's great historians?

Another problem with the historicity of Acts is its contradiction of Paul's epistle to the Galatians. Acts portrays Paul, Peter nd James as being in accord on the issue of Gentile converts not being required to observe the dietary laws or undergo circumcision. It portrays Peter as being very forthright in supporting Paul in this matter. However, Galatians portrays Paul and James as being at odds on the matter and portrays Peter as weak and vacillating.
 
How does this prove anything? Just because the bible is set in known locations does not mean the events happened.
We know Harmony Pennsylvania exists does that mean that John the Baptist met Joseph Smith there?

There is that word "prove" again. I never said the photo of the skull outside the Church of the Holy Sepulchre proved anything, but it is archaeological evidence for Gogotha as are the 1st century tombs that are under the church. It's just another piece of evidence to place on the scale.
 
General Gordon's 'discovery' of the Garden Tomb does form part and parcel of the times in which Sir Willliam Ramsey lived.
Like Sir William Ramsay's conclusions, they have been overtaken by modern aarcheology.
Interestingly enough, the Wiki article DOC got the photo from points that out.

List the conclusions by Sir W. M. Ramsay in his 15 years of research that have been overtaken by modern archaeology (and your sources). Can you name more than one?
 
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There is that word "prove" again. I never said the photo of the skull outside the Church of the Holy Sepulchre proved anything, but it is archaeological evidence for Gogotha as are the 1st century tombs that are under the church. It's just another piece of evidence to place on the scale.

Then you're misusing the word "evidence." And "archaeological." And I wouldn't trust your conception of "scale," either.
 
But, but, but DOC has promised he wouldn't link to racist/anti-Semitic sites any more.

He wouldn't break a promise, would he?

Conservapedia is a reaction to Wikipedia which was founded by an atheist. What is your evidence that Conservapedia is a racist/antiSemetic site? And I noticed you didn't rebut anything the site said in my quote.

A post like yours is a sad attempt to taint the messenger. What you left out is that I had no knowledge of what kind of site that other site was because I was more concerned about the info I got off the site which was that Thomas Jefferson claimed he was a Christian and the site showed a copy of the actual letter with Jefferson's signature. And you didn't rebut that info either.
 
DOC:

I'm still waiting for a response to my post on the innacuracies in Gamaliel's speech in Acts. Are you going to keep up this habit you seem to have developed of simply ignoring my posts? Also, neither you nor Kathy have made any response to what I've said about archaeology and history not supporting either Exodus or Joshua.
 
There is that word "prove" again. I never said the photo of the skull outside the Church of the Holy Sepulchre proved anything, but it is archaeological evidence for Gogotha as are the 1st century tombs that are under the church. It's just another piece of evidence to place on the scale.

If you think a hill shaped like a skull is evidence that should be considered when evaluating the truth of the Gospels, then I hope to God that you never serve on a jury because you have very unusual ideas about how evidence works.
 
Conservapedia is a reaction to Wikipedia which was founded by an atheist. What is your evidence that Conservapedia is a racist/antiSemetic site? <snip>

Ha, ha, ha...sorry, but even trying to use conservapedia means you're done. "founded by an atheist" - if true, so? I like playing a game of plugging in random words into conservapedia and seeing what happens (what usually happens is after 5 minutes I feel sick and need to lie down).

Obama - he used mind control, is a communist and a muslim, etc (they talk about shoes his wife wore to a food bank). http://www.conservapedia.com/Barack_Obama

ACLU - censors god and intelligent design, harms the boy scouts, protects pornography and same-sex marriage, the current CEO is gay (nooo, say it ain't so!).http://www.conservapedia.com/American_Civil_Liberties_Union

Evolution - did you know that there are NO transitional fossils?
(no more links, you know where to go)
Global warming - some sort of liberal plot apparently.
Atheism - no comment, just scroll through, note the linked main articles and cringe.

But hey, the full title is "Conservapedia : The Trustworthy Encyclopedia" so they must be telling the truth.
 

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