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Army Strong

Why don't you use depleted uranium anymore?

The sabot round is an anti armor round. It is used specifically for tanks and armored vehicles (Mainly tanks). It has little or no use in the contemporary operating environment. We used it in Desert storm and then in the first push into Iraq during OIF. Other than that we have no use for it.

How often does the world’s most bloated military win?

Always. We have never lost a conventional war and even in Vietnam we lost very little tactical encounters. Look what happened in Desert Storm. Iraq supposedly had one of the best militaries at the time and we rolled over them in a very short amount of time. Same goes for OIF.



What is the benefit of demonizing “terrorists”?

We don't do that. But if you ask if I hate terrorists then yes you are correct.


You don’t need to be qualified in psychology or indeed need much education at all to make back2basics’s simple observations about the psychology of demonization. The whole fraudulent Middle East/ Central Asian occupation is fuelled by the propagandistic demonization of Arabs, Muslims and similar, helpfully facilitated by the 9/11 US Shock and Awe event.

Our occupation in the middle east is definitely not fraudulent (AQ is still operating in Iraq and Afghanistan). And you are a 9/11 twoofer so your opinion on the matter is completely irrelevant.
 
Always. We have never lost a conventional war and even in Vietnam we lost very little tactical encounters. Look what happened in Desert Storm. Iraq supposedly had one of the best militaries at the time and we rolled over them in a very short amount of time. Same goes for OIF.

:D Are you for real ?! Iraq was virtually disarmed before the brave invaders arrived.


We don't do that. But if you ask if I hate terrorists then yes you are correct.

Sabrina: "Longtabber is not demonizing anyone from what I can tell. He has justifiable contempt for certain persons who act in certain ways, but by no means has he "demonized" anyone in this thread other than terrorists."


Our occupation in the middle east is definitely not fraudulent

It most definitely is.

(AQ is still operating in Iraq and Afghanistan)

Do you still believe that Iraq (and Afghanistan) was invaded to destroy al Al Qeada?

Al Qaeda provides the pretext for the Anglo/US alliance's highly profitable resource wars which are vital to the survival of the fuel hungry US Empire. It is not the reason for them.

'Petraeus: Al Qaeda No Longer Operating in Afghanistan'


And you are a 9/11 twoofer so your opinion on the matter is completely irrelevant.


Whether or not I am a "twoofer" is irrelevant outside of the babyspeak playground.

By most definitions I've been offered on this forum I am not a "twoofer", anyway. What's yours?
 
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Yawn. Jane do you still have any point to this thread or do you just enjoy small talk?
 
There is a HUGE difference between "demonizing" terrorists and disliking what they stand for.

I would also note that I never specifically said Longtabber WAS demonizing terrorists (although it may look that way from what I posted), but that's beside the point. What I DID say is that he has justifiable contempt for their cowardly tactics and has no qualms about teaching them the error of their ways. There is nothing in military training that allows for any soldier to generalize their enemy, but I would point out that Longtabber is actually there; we are not. He SEES the results of their actions on a daily basis; we do not. He has an incredibly unique perspective that is not shared by many of the people in this thread, including myself, simply because he is actually present in theater and actually experiences what the terrorists are perpetrating against the innocent civilians present there. We cannot know what he goes through on a daily basis, so to even make the assumption that he is "demonizing" anyone is, quite frankly, a ludicrous assumption, because it has no basis in fact. From what I can tell, he is merely a soldier doing what a soldier does and being an exemplary NCO to show his soldiers what the hard right is over the easy wrong. Once again; I'm not stationed with him, so I can't say that is fact, but from what I have read of his posts, that is the impression I get. And like it or not, the whole "appeal to authority" argument has merit here, simply because there is a major difference between the way a civilian views the world and the way a soldier views the world; it cannot be denied and should not be denied.

As to his views on liberals; I get the impression there he simply has little tolerance for people who whine that war isn't necessary, not necessarily liberals. I would classify myself as a liberal, but even I recognize that war is sometimes necessary in order to protect others' freedoms, so I have little tolerance for them myself. But he has not demonized them. And they are not his enemy. And the military in general does not tell its soldiers how to feel about politics, so Longtabber's views are his and his alone, and he has a right to them. I may disagree with him in some respects, but I do not begrudge him his right to his feelings on the subject, nor does the military.

We are trained not to generalize our enemy; that is correct. Longtabber has not once, in all the posts I've seen, violated that training principle. Nor has Quad; nor even have I or any other military member here. The military is far from a perfect entity; I would be foolish to even suggest such. We have our d-bags and useless personnel, and even personnel who violate laws much the same as any other corporation or company; and when we find them, we do our best to get rid of them just the same as those corporations and companies out there. But our military provides some of the best training in the world to personnel willing to work hard and take advantage of it, and it has paid off in spades for me, and will for Quad and Longtabber should they ever decide to get off of active duty and get civilian jobs. Longtabber has trained in the military for decades; he know their training principles better than anyone in this thread. You, b2b, JJ, do not. So I'm sorry, but your arguments have failed miserably. I have never once regretted my military service, despite being confronted with several of those d-bags I mentioned above, because I know how to use what I was taught, and I do so on a daily basis. I would imagine Longtabber and Quad feel the same as I do.
 
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There is a HUGE difference between "demonizing" terrorists and disliking what they stand for.

I would also note that I never specifically said Longtabber WAS demonizing terrorists (although it may look that way from what I posted), but that's beside the point. What I DID say is that he has justifiable contempt for their cowardly tactics and has no qualms about teaching them the error of their ways. There is nothing in military training that allows for any soldier to generalize their enemy, but I would point out that Longtabber is actually there; we are not. He SEES the results of their actions on a daily basis; we do not. He has an incredibly unique perspective that is not shared by many of the people in this thread, including myself, simply because he is actually present in theater and actually experiences what the terrorists are perpetrating against the innocent civilians present there. We cannot know what he goes through on a daily basis, so to even make the assumption that he is "demonizing" anyone is, quite frankly, a ludicrous assumption, because it has no basis in fact. From what I can tell, he is merely a soldier doing what a soldier does and being an exemplary NCO to show his soldiers what the hard right is over the easy wrong. Once again; I'm not stationed with him, so I can't say that is fact, but from what I have read of his posts, that is the impression I get. And like it or not, the whole "appeal to authority" argument has merit here, simply because there is a major difference between the way a civilian views the world and the way a soldier views the world; it cannot be denied and should not be denied.

As to his views on liberals; I get the impression there he simply has little tolerance for people who whine that war isn't necessary, not necessarily liberals. I would classify myself as a liberal, but even I recognize that war is sometimes necessary in order to protect others' freedoms, so I have little tolerance for them myself. But he has not demonized them. And they are not his enemy. And the military in general does not tell its soldiers how to feel about politics, so Longtabber's views are his and his alone, and he has a right to them. I may disagree with him in some respects, but I do not begrudge him his right to his feelings on the subject, nor does the military.

We are trained not to generalize our enemy; that is correct. Longtabber has not once, in all the posts I've seen, violated that training principle. Nor has Quad; nor even have I or any other military member here. The military is far from a perfect entity; I would be foolish to even suggest such. We have our d-bags and useless personnel, and even personnel who violate laws much the same as any other corporation or company; and when we find them, we do our best to get rid of them just the same as those corporations and companies out there. But our military provides some of the best training in the world to personnel willing to work hard and take advantage of it, and it has paid off in spades for me, and will for Quad and Longtabber should they ever decide to get off of active duty and get civilian jobs. Longtabber has trained in the military for decades; he know their training principles better than anyone in this thread. You, b2b, JJ, do not. So I'm sorry, but your arguments have failed miserably. I have never once regretted my military service, despite being confronted with several of those d-bags I mentioned above, because I know how to use what I was taught, and I do so on a daily basis. I would imagine Longtabber and Quad feel the same as I do.

I'm sorry I had to scoot last night- this was worthy of getting into

Actually, I'm here as a DOD Civilian (this time- had 2 combat tours prior) and do have a lucrative civilian career as a direct result of my military experience. ( thats that PE thing on the end) I'm also USAR now ( currently IRR, done my 30)
I also have the "H" designator so I teach MOS schools ( Infantry, Chemical, MP and Combat Engineering) up to ANCOC. Way back I worked with Dr. Notar at McClellan on many of the manuals and POI's for schools there developing them. Have also done work at the FLETC in a variety of areas.

I have my time on that side also.
 
I'm sorry I had to scoot last night- this was worthy of getting into

Actually, I'm here as a DOD Civilian (this time- had 2 combat tours prior) and do have a lucrative civilian career as a direct result of my military experience. ( thats that PE thing on the end) I'm also USAR now ( currently IRR, done my 30)
I also have the "H" designator so I teach MOS schools ( Infantry, Chemical, MP and Combat Engineering) up to ANCOC. Way back I worked with Dr. Notar at McClellan on many of the manuals and POI's for schools there developing them. Have also done work at the FLETC in a variety of areas.

I have my time on that side also.

Ah; apologies, I had inferred that you were currently active duty. :D My mistake.
 
Very good posts Sabrina...I often find myself agreeing with you.

There is one thing in particular that you said that I think many people miss....

And like it or not, the whole "appeal to authority" argument has merit here, simply because there is a major difference between the way a civilian views the world and the way a soldier views the world; it cannot be denied and should not be denied.

In my opinion the "appeal to authority" is often ignored where it has merit.

Truthers are notorious for doing this...whether it is about engineering and science, the military, or the intelligence community.....they often think they are experts in areas where they are clueless.

It's often those who don't have any inside knowledge about these topics that yell the loudest about them....which just serves to piss off those of us who do have insider knowledge in any or all of those areas.
 
And like it or not, the whole "appeal to authority" argument has merit here, simply because there is a major difference between the way a civilian views the world and the way a soldier views the world; it cannot be denied and should not be denied.

No, the appeal to authority has issues that must be addressed in my view.

No one should deny that there tends to be a difference between the way a civilian views the world and the way a soldier does. That isn't the point. The point is that one view is not more valid than the other and does not provide a shield from having to present a rational argument on specific issues.

If someone is an authority on something, they don't need the 'authority' part to back up a claim; they can provide the reasoning. They should be an authority because they know why, they don't know why because they are an authority.

This is why I'm glad you did post reasoning in the post I'm quoting from.
 
I have read some of LONGTABBER PE's posts elsewhere on the forum and it is clear from his output on this thread that he shares a perceptual characteristic not uncommon to other bullies on this forum - if he disagrees with something someone says he simply makes up and imposes his own version of it, apparently believing his own fabrication. I regard this habit as mildly psychotic. His fragile (PTSD-related?) hold on reality appears to be dominated by stereotypes and preconceptions. Demonizing the wonderfully broad group called "terrorists" is congruent with this New Age "I create my own reality" approach.

Pot, meet kettle
 
:D Are you for real ?! Iraq was virtually disarmed before the brave invaders arrived.




Sabrina: "Longtabber is not demonizing anyone from what I can tell. He has justifiable contempt for certain persons who act in certain ways, but by no means has he "demonized" anyone in this thread other than terrorists."




It most definitely is.



Do you still believe that Iraq (and Afghanistan) was invaded to destroy al Al Qeada?

Al Qaeda provides the pretext for the Anglo/US alliance's highly profitable resource wars which are vital to the survival of the fuel hungry US Empire. It is not the reason for them.

'Petraeus: Al Qaeda No Longer Operating in Afghanistan'





Whether or not I am a "twoofer" is irrelevant outside of the babyspeak playground.

By most definitions I've been offered on this forum I am not a "twoofer", anyway. What's yours?

You think the government had a hand in 9/11. You are a twoofer. All credibility goes right out the window.
 
There is a HUGE difference between "demonizing" terrorists and disliking what they stand for.

I would also note that I never specifically said Longtabber WAS demonizing terrorists (although it may look that way from what I posted), but that's beside the point. What I DID say is that he has justifiable contempt for their cowardly tactics and has no qualms about teaching them the error of their ways. There is nothing in military training that allows for any soldier to generalize their enemy, but I would point out that Longtabber is actually there; we are not. He SEES the results of their actions on a daily basis; we do not. He has an incredibly unique perspective that is not shared by many of the people in this thread, including myself, simply because he is actually present in theater and actually experiences what the terrorists are perpetrating against the innocent civilians present there. We cannot know what he goes through on a daily basis, so to even make the assumption that he is "demonizing" anyone is, quite frankly, a ludicrous assumption, because it has no basis in fact. From what I can tell, he is merely a soldier doing what a soldier does and being an exemplary NCO to show his soldiers what the hard right is over the easy wrong. Once again; I'm not stationed with him, so I can't say that is fact, but from what I have read of his posts, that is the impression I get. And like it or not, the whole "appeal to authority" argument has merit here, simply because there is a major difference between the way a civilian views the world and the way a soldier views the world; it cannot be denied and should not be denied.

As to his views on liberals; I get the impression there he simply has little tolerance for people who whine that war isn't necessary, not necessarily liberals. I would classify myself as a liberal, but even I recognize that war is sometimes necessary in order to protect others' freedoms, so I have little tolerance for them myself. But he has not demonized them. And they are not his enemy. And the military in general does not tell its soldiers how to feel about politics, so Longtabber's views are his and his alone, and he has a right to them. I may disagree with him in some respects, but I do not begrudge him his right to his feelings on the subject, nor does the military.

We are trained not to generalize our enemy; that is correct. Longtabber has not once, in all the posts I've seen, violated that training principle. Nor has Quad; nor even have I or any other military member here. The military is far from a perfect entity; I would be foolish to even suggest such. We have our d-bags and useless personnel, and even personnel who violate laws much the same as any other corporation or company; and when we find them, we do our best to get rid of them just the same as those corporations and companies out there. But our military provides some of the best training in the world to personnel willing to work hard and take advantage of it, and it has paid off in spades for me, and will for Quad and Longtabber should they ever decide to get off of active duty and get civilian jobs. Longtabber has trained in the military for decades; he know their training principles better than anyone in this thread. You, b2b, JJ, do not. So I'm sorry, but your arguments have failed miserably. I have never once regretted my military service, despite being confronted with several of those d-bags I mentioned above, because I know how to use what I was taught, and I do so on a daily basis. I would imagine Longtabber and Quad feel the same as I do.

Great post Sabrina. I agree with you completely.
 
She's good, I'll give her that. Between the 2 of you and a few others- I'm considering changing my opinion of Officers in general

Just remember it goes both ways. There are good officers and there are bad officers, just as there are good NCOs and bad NCOs. You should never judge someone by their rank until you know them and how they work. Its kinda how some people judge others in the Army by what skill badges are on their chest or what tabs are on their arm. That's one reason why I like marine uniforms. For the most part they are sterile. They are judged by how good of a leader or marine they are, not the crap they wear on their chest. I have seen some pretty awful leaders equipped with every skill badge in the book, and then some great leaders who had none. Point is, don't judge a book by its cover:)
 
You think the government had a hand in 9/11. You are a twoofer. All credibility goes right out the window.
I disagree here.
JJ is not wrong because she is a twoofer since that would be a logical fallacy.
JJ is wrong because she is wrong, plain and simple. That plus JJs posting history is what throw JJs credibility into the sewage.

Anyway, Jane has no point. Jane is just making small talk.
 
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I disagree here.
JJ is not wrong because she is a twoofer since that would be a logical fallacy.
JJ is wrong because she is wrong, plain and simple. That plus JJs posting history is what throw JJs credibility into the sewage.

Anyway, Jane has no point. Jane is just making small talk.

Trust me, I am aware of the logical fallacy. And yes you are right, she is wrong because she is just wrong. I would say 95% of her posts are complete nonsense. And as far as the twoofer aspect goes, for me anyone who is a twoofer instantly loses credibility. Being a twoofer encompasses being ignorant and poor at many different things. For example if you are a twoofer, you are poor at math, reasoning, chemistry, physics, structural engineering, logic, common sense, research, and many other things. Plus you have no problem accusing innocent people of the murder of thousands on zero evidence. I have no tolerance for twoofers.
 
Oh hush up..Sir. :)

Yes Sir ( looking for the closest exit)

You guys crack me up. I normally don't use emoticons which has lead people to believe I am a humorless, soulless, son of a bitch (which is totally false - I have a sense of humor!)

So...:)

LT, remember when I made reference to things getting so messy they have to call a General Officer out to the field? I'm waiting for the Colonel to pick me up. I'm in a good mood so far.

I cannot finish my post responding to the more serious aspects of this thread for the moment, got to scram.
 

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