Army Strong

[back2basics]

LONGTABBER feel free to keep arguing with this guy, but I think its obvious it will do no good. He can't even spell what his supposed professional training is.

You lost. You are making an issue of a typo and forgetting your training. Ask a nurse how well doctors spell, your saying they are not qualified? While discounting your own training? That sums up your "argument". You failed.

Tell me what i am saying your training doesn't say or bow out.

 

[Quad4_72]

You lost. You are making an issue of a typo and forgetting your training. Ask a nurse how well doctors spell, your saying they are not qualified? While discounting your own training? That sums up your "argument". You failed.

There you go lying again saying that I discounted my own training. Why do you lie?

 

[Audible Click]

I'm just about done with you and this thread, however I will end my participation by posting this.

My husband flew 25 missions over Germany as a pilot of a B-17 (8th Air Force, 351st BG (H) 510th Squadron) He was 20 years old and because hundreds of thousands of like minded military people put their lives on the line, you can sit behind your computer and spew all the drivel you care to. He is sitting here right now and would like me to remind you that the military personnel today are putting their lives on the line for you, yes you, so you can continue to have the freedom you enjoy now.

 

[Nosi]

The articles you linked to showed the risks of depleted uranium inhalation (Which are obvious) but did not give any hard numbers for people affected. Plus, most of the articles were talking about the Gulf War (Which we are not discussing). On top of that, one of your links has numerous DOD and Army policies specifically outlining the medical management of people who think they may have been affected and also how to work in a contaminated site, so we are already tracking on that. In fact, this link in one of your articles directly contradicts what you are suggesting:
http://www.ha.osd.mil/asd/message2.cfm

Not to mention we don't really use depleted uranium anymore. So what was your point again?

The long half-life of these weapon's nuclear componant means they go on killing long after the battle (Gulf War) is over. Unless there was a specialized clean up (people in white suits removing up that toxic matter), the ground on which the Gulf War was fought is still toxic and killing people today. Burst shell casings are still on the ground, dust still in the air waiting for Iraqis or military personnel.

The Gulf War may be over, but it's effects are spilling over into this war.

 

[back2basics]

There you go lying again saying that I discounted my own training. Why do you lie?

Show me and everybody else my lie.

 

[back2basics]

I'm just about done with you and this thread, however I will end my participation by posting this.

My husband flew 25 missions over Germany as a pilot of a B-17 (8th Air Force, 351st BG (H) 510th Squadron) He was 20 years old and because hundreds of thousands of like minded military people put their lives on the line, you can sit behind your computer and spew all the drivel you care to. He is sitting here right now and would like me to remind you that the military personnel today are putting their lives on the line for you, yes you, so you can continue to have the freedom you enjoy now.

Strawman. I love my freedom i thank you and your husband, my friends and my family that have served. They all put their lives at risk, i am humbled by that. Now show me where they tell you demonization is constructive. Show me it is not weakness. They are my points.

 

[Audible Click]

Read the post above. I'm done with you and your failed ideas.

 

[back2basics]

Read the post above. I'm done with you and your failed ideas.

For the record, you are done without illustrating your point.

 

[Quad4_72]

Show me and everybody else my lie.

You said I discounted my own training. I never did. You lie.

 

[back2basics]

You said I discounted my own training. I never did. You lie.

By your own admission, you are defending something that goes against your training.

 

[Quad4_72]

The long half-life of these weapon's nuclear componant means they go on killing long after the battle (Gulf War) is over. Unless there was a specialized clean up (people in white suits removing up that toxic matter), the ground on which the Gulf War was fought is still toxic and killing people today. Burst shell casings are still on the ground, dust still in the air waiting for Iraqis or military personnel.

The Gulf War may be over, but it's effects are spilling over into this war.

I personally don't think there is sufficient evidence to support your claim. However just for the sake of argument, what do you propose be done?

 

[Quad4_72]

By your own admission, you are defending something that goes against your training.

And what is that exactly?

 

[tyr_13]

Not to break up this gang beating, and not to completely agree with back2basics, but you guys are throwing around a lot of fallacious arguments.

Longtabber's been bitching and moaning about 'liberals' for a long time, and I guess I've gotten used to it, but that doesn't mean he shouldn't from time to time be called on it. I see that several pages back some other posters did in fact point this out. It seems that everyone else would rather jump on the person who didn't articulate the objection as well.

Then there are the ad hom attacks. Guys, seriously, just because someone hasn't been in the armed forces or in a battle doesn't make their points wrong. If you can't explain why their point is wrong, and all you can say is 'you're whining' (using a childish device like 'Wambulance') or 'civilian', you're on thin ice.

Conversely the entire, 'I'm in the military so I know what I'm talking about' appeal to authority is getting old. No, just being in the military doesn't mean you know your ass from a hole in the ground. Support your arguments.

I'm not saying that every argument has been unsupported, but the fallacious arguments being thrown around do valid arguments a disservice.

But hell, I'm just a civilian who was rejected from military service on medical grounds. Nothing I say relating to anything in the military must correct then. And I'm kind of a liberal to boot. Wait, no! I'm whining.

 

[back2basics]

And what is that exactly?

I really have not been cryptic about this.

1) He demonizes groups of people. Clearly and repeatedly and it’s all there in his post record.
2) His training told him not to, and for good reason. It clouds the perception. Special forces, who are trained to react in instants, are training... specifically to be calm and collected. Objective. They are drilled with techniques on how not to kill innocents. How to recognize small differences in composure and body language, they may not understand the actual language or culture, so body language, tone of voice are all great tools. I think that’s a good policy. It’s not perfect, but without this policy I believe there would be more innocent death and would result in anger overtaking rationality.

So what I am saying is the almost hatred in some of his statements ("____ political ideology is a mental illness") is wrong, irrational and demonizing (or dehumanizing take your pick). I am just saying that this is a learnt behavior. Unless you have any evidence to say its nature, I think that’s fair. I would doubt genetics would control that and we tend to see things like abuse, racism and bullying run in families. So the question becomes where did he learn that from?

EDIT : And why are you defending him and this behavior?

 

[back2basics]

Longtabber's been bitching and moaning about 'liberals' for a long time, and I guess I've gotten used to it, but that doesn't mean he shouldn't form time to time be called on it. I see that several pages back some other posters did in fact point this out. It seems that everyone else would rather jump on the person who didn't articulate the objection as well.

It’s not just the liberals (I am a social progressive, economic conservative and power projection conservative.. and a little libertarian on local policies, but slightly socialist on healthcare), he has demonized other groups as well. And yes I think they probably did jump on the person who didn't articulate it too well Because they had a reason.

 

[Nosi]

I personally don't think there is sufficient evidence to support your claim. However just for the sake of argument, what do you propose be done?

Good question to which I don't have a proper educated answer, although we can start by investigating if those weapons were used knowing just how dangerous they are.

Solders were in the field with out knowledge of the contents of burst shell casings, they are now dying if they breathed that in. Is that simply a risk one takes when joining the military? The people who made and set the weapons to use in the battlefield knew the effects, and surely knew that there was going to be an aftermath that could damage us politically and financially. Someone somewhere has a lot of blood on their hands.

 

[Quad4_72]

I really have not been cryptic about this.

1) He demonizes groups of people. Clearly and repeatedly and it’s all there in his post record.
2) His training told him not to, and for good reason. It clouds the perception. Special forces, who are trained to react in instants, are training... specifically to be calm and collected. Objective. They are drilled with techniques on how not to kill innocents. How to recognize small differences in composure and body language, they may not understand the actual language or culture, so body language, tone of voice are all great tools. I think that’s a good policy. It’s not perfect, but without this policy I believe there would be more innocent death and would result in anger overtaking rationality.

So what I am saying is the almost hatred in some of his statements ("____ political ideology is a mental illness") is wrong, irrational and demonizing (or dehumanizing take your pick). I am just saying that this is a learnt behavior. Unless you have any evidence to say its nature, I think that’s fair. I would doubt genetics would control that and we tend to see things like abuse, racism and bullying run in families. So the question becomes where did he learn that from?

EDIT : And why are you defending him and this behavior?

You are just simply looking WAYYYYYYY too far into it. He just doesn't like liberals and expresses this whenever he feels like it. His dislike of liberals does not mean that he demonizes the actual enemy in combat. You have no proof that he does this either.

And there you go using a word like "learnt" again. We don't say that in America. Are you SURE you are from here?

 

[Cuddles]

Show me and everybody else my lie.

OK.

Planet back2basics:

2) His training told him not to

Planet Earth:

Nothing is said on the matter actually and I have no idea where you got that from.

Can you change the record now please, you're really starting to get boring.

 

[JihadJane]

Not to mention we don't really use depleted uranium anymore.

Why don't you use depleted uranium anymore?

Not to break up this gang beating, and not to completely agree with back2basics, but you guys are throwing around a lot of fallacious arguments.

Longtabber's been bitching and moaning about 'liberals' for a long time, and I guess I've gotten used to it, but that doesn't mean he shouldn't from time to time be called on it. I see that several pages back some other posters did in fact point this out. It seems that everyone else would rather jump on the person who didn't articulate the objection as well.

Then there are the ad hom attacks. Guys, seriously, just because someone hasn't been in the armed forces or in a battle doesn't make their points wrong. If you can't explain why their point is wrong, and all you can say is 'you're whining' (using a childish device like 'Wambulance') or 'civilian', you're on thin ice.

Conversely the entire, 'I'm in the military so I know what I'm talking about' appeal to authority is getting old. No, just being in the military doesn't mean you know your ass from a hole in the ground. Support your arguments.

I'm not saying that every argument has been unsupported, but the fallacious arguments being thrown around do valid arguments a disservice.

But hell, I'm just a civilian who was rejected from military service on medical grounds. Nothing I say relating to anything in the military must correct then. And I'm kind of a liberal to boot. Wait, no! I'm whining.

Thanks for your intelligent post.

I promised earlier to comment on the responses to the OP (I have abandoned the idea of re-posting the OP vid with guiding comments for those who feel lost without a clear target to shoot at). The outstanding feature has been the proliferation of often juvenile ad hominem insults and character assassinations. This shouldn't have surprised me as it is, unfortunately, the standard response of the US military (not exclusively, of course) to any whistle-blowing or criticism of its conduct or honesty.

You do also realize that America has the most powerful and best trained military in the world correct? Some of that may be debatable in your opinion, but we can at least agree on one of the top 5. I personally think the best So I think what we are doing is working out pretty good for us.

How often does the world’s most bloated military win?

.

Longtabber is not demonizing anyone from what I can tell. He has justifiable contempt for certain persons who act in certain ways, but by no means has he "demonized" anyone in this thread other than terrorists. I will admit he's a tad blunt in his posts and has little tolerance for apologists (in my perspective, mind you), but there is no demonization going on.

What is the benefit of demonizing “terrorists”?

Does anyone reading this thread have ANY idea what back2basics is talking about?

Yes.

I am not reading through 1713 posts. I HAVE however read many of his posts in other threads and you do not have a case. This is simply an NCO doing what he does best, being blunt and to the point. Your skin is way too thin.

I have read some of LONGTABBER PE's posts elsewhere on the forum and it is clear from his output on this thread that he shares a perceptual characteristic not uncommon to other bullies on this forum - if he disagrees with something someone says he simply makes up and imposes his own version of it, apparently believing his own fabrication. I regard this habit as mildly psychotic. His fragile (PTSD-related?) hold on reality appears to be dominated by stereotypes and preconceptions. Demonizing the wonderfully broad group called "terrorists" is congruent with this New Age "I create my own reality" approach.

I was wondering where you are from because of your consistent poor grammar and misspellings. If you were from another country, it would be possible for you to have some spelling errors and grammar errors and still have some professional training in psychology, seeing as how you would not be too familiar with the language. But you said you are from America, and someone who is actually qualified in psychology would not make such errors. They would have the educational background to perform the simple task of typing coherent sentences. Admit that you have no professional training in psychology.

You don’t need to be qualified in psychology or indeed need much education at all to make back2basics’s simple observations about the psychology of demonization. The whole fraudulent Middle East/ Central Asian occupation is fuelled by the propagandistic demonization of Arabs, Muslims and similar, helpfully facilitated by the 9/11 US Shock and Awe event.

 

[paximperium]

Why don't you use depleted uranium anymore?

Because soft fleshy targets don't require it.

I promised earlier to comment on the responses to the OP (I have abandoned the idea of re-posting the OP vid with guiding comments for those who feel lost without a clear target to shoot at).

So you still have no point.

The outstanding feature has been the proliferation of often juvenile ad hominem insults and character assassinations. This shouldn't have surprised me as it is, unfortunately, the standard response of the US military (not exclusively, of course) to any whistle-blowing or criticism of its conduct or honesty.

Oh, the sanctimonous hypocrisy of JJ is most amusing.

I have read some of LONGTABBER PE's posts elsewhere on the forum and it is clear from his output on this thread that he shares a perceptual characteristic not uncommon to other bullies on this forum - if he disagrees with something someone says he simply makes up and imposes his own version of it, apparently believing his own fabrication. I regard this habit as mildly psychotic. His fragile (PTSD-related?) hold on reality appears to be dominated by stereotypes and preconceptions. Demonizing the wonderfully broad group called "terrorists" is congruent with this New Age "I create my own reality" approach.

Who needs "facts" in JJ's sad world.

You don’t need to be qualified in psychology or indeed need much education at all to make back2basics’s simple observations about the psychology of demonization.

So making things up and claiming it is "based on psychology" is valid in JJ's world. Sad.

The whole fraudulent Middle East/ Central Asian occupation is fuelled by the propagandistic demonization of Arabs, Muslims and similar, helpfully facilitated by the 9/11 US Shock and Awe event.

Yawn. I love our small talk since you still have no point. How dull and boring.