Why the Harrit Nano-thermite paper has not yet been debunked

[HyJinX]

Barry Jennings gave powerful testimony of several loud explosions in WTC7 before the towers collapsed and dead bodies in the WTC7 lobby. That testimony support the CD hypothesis. Get it now?

Only in your mind. Good luck with that, lil guy.

 

[JimBenArm]

Straw man: A straw man argument is an informal fallacy based on misrepresentation of an opponent's position. Wikipedia.org

Anyone accussing Ragnarok of claiming Macky is a "disinfo agent", based on this post, is guilty of the aforementioned fallacy.

I've got....

JimBenArm
Twinstead
CHF

and then Dave Rogers, I guess through sheer lack of comprehension, suggests to Macky that it's better to be accused of liking Michael Bolton, then to be accused of being a disinfo agent.



Newsflash Dave, no one here ever accused him of that.

Which makes your "gang's" mocking humor absolutely idiotic to any passerby with a 6th grade reading comprehension.

Ragnarok, If you really want to get to the bottom of who Macky is, why not call his agent?

This is so surprising coming from someone who thinks Cheney is still VP...

 

[cmatrix]

Did cmatrix ever provide a rational for why the study tested the thermite energy density in air instead of an inert atmosphere? This would have been VERY strong evidence in favor of thermite. The only reason I can think that Harrit didn't test in an inert atmosphere is that he already knew it wasn't thermite and wouldn't react without the presence of oxygen.

I have several times now. However, crackpot true believers consistently ignore facts and logic in order to cling to their delusional belief systems.

 

[Newtons Bit]

I have several times now. However, crackpot true believers consistently ignore facts and logic in order to cling to their delusional belief systems.

"It's not necessary" isn't a very good rationale.

 

[Sword_Of_Truth]

Barry Jennings gave powerful testimony of several loud explosions in WTC7 before the towers collapsed and dead bodies in the WTC7 lobby. That testimony support the CD hypothesis. Get it now?

Barry Jennings wasn't a crackpot supporter, sorry.



"Do I think our government would do something like that to its own people? No, I honestly don't believe that."

Get it now?

 

[ImANiceGuy]

This is so surprising coming from someone who thinks Cheney is still VP...

Well the avatar is [wp] as in "Well played Cheney". I'm Rich Biatch!

 

[NutCracker]

I have several times now. However, crackpot true believers consistently ignore facts and logic in order to cling to their delusional belief systems.

The only time the delusional make accurate statements is when they try to describe their opponents, "you" replaced by "we", that is.


Thank you..

 

[Sword_Of_Truth]

I have several times now. However, crackpot true believers consistently ignore facts and logic in order to cling to their delusional belief systems.

No, you haven't.

Nor, for that matter, have you responded to the questions I asked you about Dr. Harrits theory that hundreds of tons of conventional explosives are the cause of the collapses on 9/11.

 

[T.A.M.]

I have several times now. However, crackpot true believers consistently ignore facts and logic in order to cling to their delusional belief systems.

You are 100% right, but you can't make the truther drink the water, as much as you lead him to it.

TAM

 

[willhaven]

The point is to prove it could have happened, and then to start pressurising likely participants or the people who were designated to unearth this evidence.

There are a number of things that could have happened. The fact that hundreds people picked through the debris with a fine tooth comb looking for evidence, body parts, bone fragments, and not one shred of evidence of controlled demolition was found is pretty telling.

Q: What kind of controlled demolition leaves no trace?

A: The kind of controlled demolition never happened.

 

[Newtons Bit]

Suppose I were to take a sheet of aluminium foil and paint it with a material that uses iron oxide for red coloring. Then crush it up in a mortar and pestle and send it off to Harrit. Would he conclude that it is thermite?

 

[Justin39640]

Since Harrit et al. clearly show a very large amount of O in the form of iron oxide intimately mixed with Al clearly the material is thermitic.

Lesson: Don't drive rusty nails through aluminum siding.

ETA: Use extra caution when the siding is painted red.

 

[ElMondoHummus]

See, now you can do paragraphs and proper sentences, when it suits you.

The point isn't to prove it happened, because conveniently there is nothing left for investigators to investigate from the rubble, apart from the pieces NIST and whoever, kept hold of to confirm their argument. [highlight]The point is to prove it could have happened, and then to start pressurising likely participants or the people who were designated to unearth this evidence[/highlight].

This is such backwards thinking that it's unbelievable. Unconveniently for conspiracy peddlers, the rubble was looked at by a very large number people, and there is also nonphysical evidence like witness testimony and video to examine, as well as engineering principles that can be used to analyze what's known about the collapse. The conclusion that explosives were not used was not developed in a vacuum, but rather flow logically from the absence of any evidence indicating they might have been used. And the evidence forwarded by conspiracy peddlers is poor in the extreme: The "testimony" cited for explosive sounds are mostly metaphores or descriptions of interior contents impacting. The "squibs" are not uniformly distributed around the building and are better explained by pneumatic pressure caused by falling upper segments. The time it took to fall is entirely consistent with the building suffering interior failures, and so is the distribution of debris. The fact of the matter is, there are no sound indications of explosives use, and what truthers forward is exceptionally unsound. There is no need to investigate any more because what's already known rules out explosives use.

Any argument that presumes there's something left to be discovered which will prove explosives is ignorant. Plain and simple. Explosives are already contradicted as a proposal using what is already known, and what is not known is already boundaried by the knowledge that exists. Explosives simply do not fit in that unknown area because they are already ruled out by the facts that are known. It's that simple.

 

[tsig]

You are wasting time attacking Mackey and failing to prove your support of a delusion that thermite brought down the WTC (Jones thinks it was in the ceiling tiles). You suppport a delusoin and attack Mackey for posting the truth.
Attacking Mackey is the only thing you can do since you have no evidence to support the paper. A paper by a few fringe nut case conspiracy theorists based on a delusions of Jones. They are paranoid that the US government did 911. They are finishing their professional careers with nut case ideas; at least we can all relax because only 0.00087 percent of professional engineers and scientists go nuts in their later years if we use the 911 delusoinal fall for these few failures as a guide.

Here is all the evidence Jones used to make up his theory.
This is it hearsay used as evidence to make up his thermite scam. He went on 4 years ago to present lies about 911. He lies, you believe? How are you fooled by an old man who makes up lies?

Stop wasting your valuable time attacking Mackey who is correct and go get the knowledge, the education, the logical critical thinking skills necessary to see Jones and Harrit have conclusion that is a delusion. Good luck

So far we've had thermite in the concrete, the ceiling, the columns, the paint and the fireproofing, I guess airborne particles are the next step that way they could introduce it thru the HVAC system.

 

[Cl1mh4224rd]

Mr Mackey, is there a bio about what you do and who you are, available on the web anywhere? I'd love to know a bit about your motivation on this board, and maybe what books you've wrote and the no doubt advanced qualifications you've achieved.

If you dont deem me worthy of reply, maybe one of your acolytes can clue me in?

And here are the Ad Hominems coming. Scrapping the bottom of the empty barrel labeled 'Pro controlled demolition/therm?te arguments' has now resulted in the bottom being ablated.

classic...preparation for "attack the arguer rather then the argument" is it?

well done. Classic. You do your kind (truther) proud.

TAM

Nope. Mere curiosity. I take it you know exactly who he is and why he devotes so much of his expertise to a backwater forum on the internet?

Address what? Mackey's rulings and opinions on a substance he doesn't even believe exists?

Does part of Mr Mackey's job at NASA involve him dabbling in chemical physics?

Just curious, huh?

 

[tsig]

Aha, this is what I've been looking for.

http://911research.wtc7.net/essays/thermite/blasting_scenario.html

Break it up into digestible pieces for the laymen among us, and do your derbunking stuff.

"Equipment Procurement

The following table lists the materials required for both Towers.
part quantity
20"x20"x3/4" ceiling tile with embedded thin-film explosive and 2-channel wireless micro-detonator 1,000,000
12"x12"x3/4" ceiling tile with embedded thin-film explosive and 2-channel wireless micro-detonator 800,000
10-lb nano-thermite kicker charge with 2-channel wireless detonator in fire-protective capsule disguised as fire extinguisher 100
5 gallon thermate coating compound 20
spray applicator with flexible snake hose and integrated borescope 2
2-channel wireless high-temperature igniter 100
20-channel 200W RF repeater with UPS 240

All of the equipment is available off-the-shelf from commercial vendors or special operations supply depots except for the wireless explosive ceiling tiles, which have to be specially manufactured. The tiles are assembled at a facility that is supplied with pre-manufactured materials and parts, some only for secret military applications: 2-channel wireless micro-detonators in the form of thin-profile cards, nanocomposite thin-film explosives in the form of pre-cut sheets, and acoustic-tile fiberboard sheets pre-cut to the correct sizes and pre-painted. The facility cements a detonator to the sheet, and laminates the sheet between two pieces of fiberboard. "

And no one who made the tiles noticed anything odd.

 

[tsig]

See, now you can do paragraphs and proper sentences, when it suits you.

The point isn't to prove it happened, because conveniently there is nothing left for investigators to investigate from the rubble, apart from the pieces NIST and whoever, kept hold of to confirm their argument. The point is to prove it could have happened, and then to start pressurising likely participants or the people who were designated to unearth this evidence.

In that case you should be looking for people who work at clandestine ceiling tile factories. Start low work high.

 

[BigAl]

Originally Posted by Ragnarok
Aha, this is what I've been looking for.

http://911research.wtc7.net/essays/thermite/blasting_scenario.html

Break it up into digestible pieces for the laymen among us, and do your derbunking stuff.

Ragnarok , Anytime anyone says "thin film", remember that any thermatic material needs about 2 pounds of thermite to melt one pound of steel.

On other words, a "thin film" of thermite is only going to blister the paint on whatever it is coated on.

Hoffman says thin films were applied.

The whole Hoffman hypothesis is silly for many, many reasons.

 

[Macgyver1968]

Oh, and has this been taken apart and ridiculed yet? http://911research.wtc7.net/essays/thermite/thermitics_made_simple.html

Thanks for posting that link. I had heard of the ceiling tile theory before, but never actually read the full description. Let's just say for the sake of civility, it was "interesting" reading.

Let's start with the good...as Mama always said "If you can't say something good, then don't say anything at all". Ragnarok, there's a reason people call me "MacGyver", it's because I'm really good at fixing things. Whenever I have to solve a problem, I do an instant "feasibility study" in my mind, and think through everything that would need to be done, and what tools would be needed to solve a specific problem. I assemble the entire project in my "mind's eye" and look for anything that isn't actually doable, and it appears Hoffman actually tried to address some of the logistics involved with his theory. I really liked the fact that Hoffman considered adding an accelerometer to the RF detonators. With over a million devices, at least some of them would fail to get a signal, the accelerometer adds a backup in case the RF fails. So I thought that was a neat consideration.

However, everything else totally failed the feasibility test. To start. There's a reason you don't see explosives in thin large sheets. Spreading the energy release over a large surface area only dilutes the force created. Cutting charges do the opposite, they focus all of the explosive force of the charge to a single point, concentrating the energy, they are also are placed right up against what they are trying to cut. A large thin sheet of any explosive, take your pick, hung a foot or more away from the target (the floor trusses), would do nothing to structural steel.

Hoffman proposes that there were more than a million of these tiles. That means there were over a million individual detonators embedded in these tiles. When ceiling tiles are installed, some of them have to be cut to fit. Hoffman proposes these tiles could have been installed unknowingly by existing maintenance personal, and that the explosive film could be explained away as being some sort of fire protection or something. However, he neglects to address what happens when someone cuts into a detonator, and finds it. How could that be explained away? If there were over a million of these detonators, it is reasonable to assume some of them would fail. Why didn't they find any of the 100's or 1000's of failed detonators in the rubble? The explosions wouldn't completely vaporize the detonator, so there would be over a million semi-destroyed detonators in the debris, yet no one found any...why is that?

It's like Hoffman is going out of his way to make thing way more complex than they have to be. Rube Goldberg on steroids.

 

[tsig]

Which makes your "gang's" mocking humor absolutely idiotic to any passerby with a 6th grade reading comprehension.

Good thing then that most here are beyond the 7th grade.