Tower Collapse Questions for Critical Thinkers

[kylebisme]

Kyle, down is down, and it remains so wherever you go. Things that drop at an angle will, as soon as the force that pushed them at an angle is eliminated, will drop down.

What force are you suggesting pushed the top portion of the tower to the side, and what force are you suggesting eliminated it?

Straight down. Which is pretty much from there to the center of the Earth. The same down as when you drop a shoe.

When falling though air, sure, but we aren't talking about a mass being dropped though air here. A better example would be one I made as my first post here after seeing the picture I used for the one I posted above"

For a simplified example; imagine taking a milk carton and flatting down the top, and then dropping a brick on it. Assuming the brick came down perfectly centered on the carton, that carton could conceivably crumple down fairly evenly to some extent or another. However, far more likely is the possibility that variations on the structural integrity of the carton would cause it to give way towards one direction or the other, resulting in the brick sliding off towards the weakest side. The only way you are going to crush the whole carton down into it's footprint is by dropping the brick perfectly square on top of it from a massive height, or wetting the carton down to the point of almost completely compromising its structural integrity.

Of course the top of the tower wouldn't just slide off unless it broke free, but the angle of the upper portion of the mass has direct relationship to the distribution of force on the lower section regardless.

 

[DavidJames]

If you took a bucket of loose dirt, set a brick on it, and wet down one corner, would you expect the brick to sink straight down?

You know what is both sad and funny at the same time? CTboy is serious and thinks he's making some kind of earth shattering point.

Tell me CTboy. Is there are reason you are using dirt and water instead of formulas for the components of the structure, like educated adults? I'm guessing because you have zero education or practical experience in an relevant disciplines. But since you are a 9/11 CTists, you need someway to try and argue your belief. You can prove me wrong of course, but I'm guessing you won't.

My suggestion would be read something about the subject that's not from a CT site. Will you do that?

 

[Thunder]

fresh fish

 

[kylebisme]

kylebisme, what's your point? What are you trying to prove? That the tower didn't collapse? Went up? Sideways?

I'm simply pointing out an apparent inconsistency between the observed collapse and the commonly accepted explanation for that collapse.

And I thought using a pizza box as an analouge for the Twin Towers was bad lo...

Please feel free to present a whatever you might consider a better one.

 

[Thunder]

Please see my brick in mud example above.

no, truther, I will not.

 

[BigAl]

I'm simply pointing out an apparent inconsistency between the observed collapse and the commonly accepted explanation for that collapse.

Please feel free to present a whatever you might consider a better one.

www.nist.gov

Nobody with actual expertise and knowledge agrees with you.

The burden is on you to explain what is wrong.

You are welcome to ask questions.

 

[Justin39640]

when things are that big they behave much differently than something the size of a milk carton
its called scale

youre suggesting that there is a "fulcrum point"
how is the lower structure supposed to support all of the weight of the upper structure on that one spot? (or a far fewer % of support points)

what happens when that support fails?
things fall straight down cause there is no more support for the fulcrum

thats it

 

[triforcharity]

I just tried your little experiment (Im drunk and a little bored, what can I say) I followed exactly what you said, even got my sober friends to help.

Guess what?? Now, all I have is a bucket full of mud and a wet brick in the same position that it was when I set it in the bucket. Imagine that.

Is this going to be like your baseball analogy?? That one had fail written all over it too.

 

[Arus808]

If you took a bucket of loose dirt, set a brick on it, and wet down one corner, would you expect the brick to sink straight down?

wtf analogy is this? this is plain stupid. ARE YOU freaking kidding?

BTW, You gave me my first stundie nomination

 

[kylebisme]

Is there are reason you are using dirt and water instead of formulas for the components of the structure, like educated adults?

Because the example I addresses "straight down" argument well enough. Of course you are free to present formulas to argue otherwise if you care too.

I'm guessing because you have zero education or practical experience in an relevant disciplines.

Actually I studied architecture into college and moved to physics from there. I wound up not being able to continue paying tuition due to financial issues and my refusal to accumulate debt, so while I have no degree, I do have some education and practical experience in the matters at hand.

 

[Arus808]

Because the example I addresses "straight down" argument well enough. Of course you are free to present formulas to argue otherwise if you care too.

actually, your "example" does nothing of the sort, except to provide a note worthy stundie nomination

 

[triforcharity]

I think he means that he TRIED to apply, but they rejected his application because they could tell that he was a failure then. Good caall for them.

 

[Lupie]

The "official story" is not a story, it's fact. Terrorists murdered over 3000 people that day. You are a broken record. Get over yourself Kyle, this crap is boring.

 

[triforcharity]

ARUS, You bastage!! I was SO getting ready to STUNDIE that, but you beat me to it!! DAMN YOU Arus, daamn you.....

 

[Justin39640]

here is a few very simple models i made

wathc the second part how far over this one leans and what happens when the lower support fails

(odd, the music on this one was removed for copyright a few weeks ago and now its back???)

 

[Arus808]

^_^ ... and I was late in considering in nominating it as a stundie. Only when I watched a commercial did I realize "DAMN that was a stundie".

MY first nomination!! yeah me!

 

[PixyMisa]

Because the example I addresses "straight down" argument well enough. Of course you are free to present formulas to argue otherwise if you care too.

Formulas and figures have been provided in the NIST report. If you disagree, it is up to you to provide your own formulas and figures, not just bad analogies.

Actually I studied architecture into college and moved to physics from there.

Then you should have no trouble with the required calculations, right?

Right?

And yet, I see a complete absence of calculations in your posts thus far.

 

[kylebisme]

www.nist.gov

Nobody with actual expertise and knowledge agrees with you.

The burden is on you to explain what is wrong.

NIST didn't even analyse the collapse itself, only proposed conditions which they claim lead to it.

when things are that big they behave much differently than something the size of a milk carton
its called scale

How did you derived this conclusion?

youre suggesting that there is a "fulcrum point"
how is the lower structure supposed to support all of the weight of the upper structure on that one spot? (or a far fewer % of support points)

what happens when that support fails?
things fall straight down cause there is no more support for the fulcrum

thats it

That would be it, if only the orientation of the mass above the fulcrum was reflected in the destruction below.

I just tried your little experiment (Im drunk and a little bored, what can I say) I followed exactly what you said, even got my sober friends to help.

Guess what?? Now, all I have is a bucket full of mud and a wet brick in the same position that it was when I set it in the bucket. Imagine that.

You used too light of a brick and/or the dirt was too compacted.

 

[PixyMisa]

How did you derived this conclusion?

What, are you actually questioning this?!

Start with the square-cube law, or better, read On Being the Right Size.

That would be it, if only the orientation of the mass above the fulcrum was reflected in the destruction below.

Reflected how?

You used too light of a brick and/or the dirt was too compacted.

So?

 

[triforcharity]

Nope, I used a brick from my grandparents house that is around 100 years old, and I dug the dirt up, put it in the bucket. However it fell in there, is how it landed.

What do YOU conclude it would do.

BTW, I will be needing some help from an educated source to upload this experiment to YouTube. Any help from an EDUCATED person should suffice. Read: NOT FROM YOU KYLE!!