Brainster Versus Dylan Avery Debate September 10, 2009

[triforcharity]

Hey Bill, I was one of the debunkers who called in and asked about KSM. My question isn't even about 911 and I'm asking sincerely, do you think that Dylan was directly answering my question? Or do you think that he was trying to change the subject to talk about ObL?



Officially two different Truthers did not know of the NIST report. They were still talking about the pancake theory and how wtc 7 wasn't in the 911CR and when ever someone did tell me who they thought was behind it they said it was Israel.

One guy thought it was both Israel and the Illuminati.

I want to point out that one of them disproved one of my arguing points. When I mentioned the ESB plane crash had fuel also go down into the lobby the Truther told me that the towers had elevator banks, that they didn't go all the way down. That sounds pretty legit to me and so I figured before I continue saying how insane they are I should mention that someone totally destroyed me on that point.
ALL of them were trying to change the subject.

I think I'm gonna look lame on youtube too, but the video the guy was recording did record him saying that he thought that it was a good idea for them to start looking into how to get KSM out of jail.

Caan you elaborate any on this?? I am a little confused. Is he saying the in the WTC, there were NOT elevators that go from top to bottom?? Or that the elevators would have stopped any advance of fire?? I am a little confused.

 

[fourtoe]

Caan you elaborate any on this?? I am a little confused. Is he saying the in the WTC, there were NOT elevators that go from top to bottom?? Or that the elevators would have stopped any advance of fire?? I am a little confused.

She was talking about the former.

 

[triforcharity]

So, the Empire State Building?? I am still kinda confused.

What exactly were they trying to say?? That there couldn't have been a fireball in the lobby caused by the plane crashing into the building up top?? Or that it was something else all together.

 

[Foolmewunz]

She was talking about the former.

It's not really a question of the elevators, though, is it? There are several (not all, not by a long shot) shafts that run top to bottom and one or more of the freight/service elevators did run the whole height of the building.

So there was definitely a pathway for the fuel to go all the way down.

 

[LostAngeles]

It's not really a question of the elevators, though, is it? There are several (not all, not by a long shot) shafts that run top to bottom and one or more of the freight/service elevators did run the whole height of the building.

So there was definitely a pathway for the fuel to go all the way down.

Really? Can you throw us a reference for that please? That'll be handy as ****!

 

[fourtoe]

It's not really a question of the elevators, though, is it? There are several (not all, not by a long shot) shafts that run top to bottom and one or more of the freight/service elevators did run the whole height of the building.

So there was definitely a pathway for the fuel to go all the way down.

ARGH! I had a feeling she was wrong. But I personally didn't know and I just didn't want to brush it off as not being true or as her just lying, that is too much of a Truther thing to do when being proved wrong.

Dang it, I will never ever see her again, either.

 

[Foolmewunz]

Let me check the Wayback Machine. I'm not real good at this sort of digging, but I think it was in one of the Willy Rodriguez threads and they're rather voluminous.

 

[CompusMentus]

Tri and knife, about the elevators in the towers.

I believe there were freight elevators that went from top to bottom, the public elevators were spilit at two concourses. At least I think so.

Well done to all you blokes. You did a grand job of turning this creep over. I would have liked to have seen him nailed on the Bernard Brown issue but there you go, I shall have to catch him next time he ventures on to radio this side of the pond and do it myself.

As GrenMe points out it's important to focus in these type of debates although it's obviously very difficult to get a hook when the worm wriggles so much.

Compus

 

[Foolmewunz]

Here ya go!

There were 99 passenger elevators in each tower, arranged in three vertical zones to move occupants in stages to skylobbies on the 44th and 78th floors. These were arranged as express (generally larger cars that moved at higher speeds) and local elevators in an innovative system first introduced in WTC 1 and WTC 2. There were 8 express elevators from the concourse to the 44th floor and 10 express elevators from the concourse to the 78th floor as well as 24 local elevators per zone, which served groups of floors in those zones. There were seven freight elevators, only one of which served all floors. All elevators had been upgraded to incorporate firefighter emergency operation per American Society of Mechanical Engineers (ASME) A17.1 and Local Law 5 (1973).http://wtc.nist.gov/NISTNCSTAR1-1.pdf (PDF pg. 50)

http://911stories.googlepages.com/wtcelevatorshafts






So there's at least one that served all floors, but I'm sure I remember reading that one or two more shafts ran the entire height.

You also have to consider that the express elevators to 78 (the 2nd sky lobby) would have been in shafts that were close enough to the hit on WTC 1 that the fuel would have easily found its way down those shafts.


ETA: Diagram

 

[LostAngeles]

http://911stories.googlepages.com/wtcelevatorshafts

So there's at least one that served all floors, but I'm sure I remember reading that one or two more shafts ran the entire height.

You also have to consider that the express elevators to 78 (the 2nd sky lobby) would have been in shafts that were close enough to the hit on WTC 1 that the fuel would have easily found its way down those shafts.

Awesome. I can't believe we didn't think of freight elevators. Those would run from the top down to the basement.

Thanks a bunch, Foolmewunz!

 

[Foolmewunz]

Awesome. I can't believe we didn't think of freight elevators. Those would run from the top down to the basement.

Thanks a bunch, Foolmewunz!

Credit is due to those who went before me. I just recalled seeing the deatils because I worked in those buildings for more than 10 years, and I was a little surprised that there weren't more service elevators running the full length of the building... it sort of stuck in my mind at the time.

 

[fourtoe]

Credit is due to those who went before me. I just recalled seeing the deatils because I worked in those buildings for more than 10 years, and I was a little surprised that there weren't more service elevators running the full length of the building... it sort of stuck in my mind at the time.

Yeah, now that I think about it it does seem like there should be a few more, considering how massive the building was.

 

[LostAngeles]

I forgot another detail.

Apparently, bin Laden is a CIA agent and Al-Quaeda doesn't exist. That was awesome as well.

 

[steve s]

... the public elevators were spilit at two concourses. At least I think so.

But although the cars only traveled a limited range, didn't the shafts extend the entire height?

Steve S.

 

[eromitlab]

Am I wrong in saying he didnt have a single good point ? He stumbled through this whole thing like a true moron.

You are not wrong. That particular caller's knowledge of 9/11 amounts to a series of talking points culled from 9/11 Mysteries, Loose Change, his own youtube videos and whatever Alex Jones' band of fools is pushing at the moment. Which, I think, makes it more epic that the person that comes off sounding like an absolute fool not only fails to realize how ridiculous he comes off and posts it willingly, but declares victory.

 

[Whiplash]

So shall we say
Dylan-1
Debunkers-0.

I can't see how this can be seen as anything other than trolling.

And not because you are wrong in your analysis. It's more about the fact that to that point in the thread, there was a strong consensus in the other direction.. and then you just jump in and say it at that time.

It doesn't reflect the reality of the discussion to that point in any way.

It was clearly nothing more than an an attempt to provoke a negative or angry response.

Clearly trolling. And rather childishly. How old are you Bill?

 

[bill smith]

I can't see how this can be seen as anything other than trolling.

And not because you are wrong in your analysis. It's more about the fact that to that point in the thread, there was a strong consensus in the other direction.. and then you just jump in and say it at that time.

It doesn't reflect the reality of the discussion to that point in any way.

It was clearly nothing more than an an attempt to provoke a negative or angry response.

Clearly trolling. And rather childishly. How old are you Bill?

I am not resposive to that particular question. As you say it was clear that Dylan had prevailed in the debate which is quite impressive considering that he was up against a whole coven of debunkers.

I just wanted to inject a note of reality into the grooming session that was going on on the thread. No sense in allowing people to continue manufacturing an illusion.

 

[Brainster]

Hey Bill, I was one of the debunkers who called in and asked about KSM. My question isn't even about 911 and I'm asking sincerely, do you think that Dylan was directly answering my question? Or do you think that he was trying to change the subject to talk about ObL?



Officially two different Truthers did not know of the NIST report. They were still talking about the pancake theory and how wtc 7 wasn't in the 911CR and when ever someone did tell me who they thought was behind it they said it was Israel.

One guy thought it was both Israel and the Illuminati.

I want to point out that one of them disproved one of my arguing points. When I mentioned the ESB plane crash had fuel also go down into the lobby the Truther told me that the towers had elevator banks, that they didn't go all the way down. That sounds pretty legit to me and so I figured before I continue saying how insane they are I should mention that someone totally destroyed me on that point.

Nope, there was one freight elevator in each building that was able to go from the lowest basement to the top floor. So count yourself undestroyed!

ETA: I see this point was already made. So I'll point out that I seem to remember the operators who ran those two elevators were a married couple.

 

[Regnad Kcin]

Say, bill, I believe you were about to mention what your agenda is in all this. You do recall my politely asking you to do so somewhere around ten times in the last few months, yes?

 

[WildCat]

But although the cars only traveled a limited range, didn't the shafts extend the entire height?

Steve S.

Yep, the elevators were in the same shaft, one on top of the other. So even if the elevators didn't go all the way down several of the shafts did.