Archeologly proves the Bible?

[Akhenaten]

You're just p***ed the Jews stole from a hymn you wrote.


ETA: Anyway, I noticed by its flavor, not as a direct steal.

Jokes aside, I have to agree with you. I see lots of similarities myself, but I honestly have insufficient knowledge to comment on authorship of the later work.


Cheers,

Dave



ETA: Eccles does!

 

[TimCallahan]

It is true that many ancient peoples had a flood legend.

One thing fundamentalist apologists fail to mention is that a lot of ancient peoples did NOT have a flood myth, something that would be hard to explain if the myths are based on a true event. Let us enumerate:

There was no flood myth in the original mythology of the Celtic, Teutonic, Slavic, Baltic, Finno-Ugric or Altaic (Mongols, Turks etc.) peoples. With the exception of a classic flood myth among an ethnic group originally from Thailand, the only flood myth among the Chinese involves a river, which is contained when the people work together to build a dam. There is no native Japanese flood myth. Thus, flood myths were absent from the peoples who inhabited the majority ofthe Eurasian landmass.

Flood myths are also rare in Africa. In ancient Egyptian myth, the gods pour a flood of soporific beer made from mandarake root over the land of Egypt to halt the rampage of the goddess Hat-hor. She has been slaughtering the human race; but when she sees her own beautiful face reflected in the flood, she drinks it all up and staggers off to bed.

So tell me, Doc (LOL: like you'll actually answer me), if the Flood was a real event, why do so many of the peoples of Eurasia and Africa have no memory of it?

 

[Akhenaten]

<sniphet>

Flood myths are also rare in Africa. In ancient Egyptian myth, the gods pour a flood of soporific beer made from mandarake root over the land of Egypt to halt the rampage of the goddess Hat-hor. She has been slaughtering the human race; but when she sees her own beautiful face reflected in the flood, she drinks it all up and staggers off to bed.

Now that's how you do a flood story.

 

[dropzone]

Quite right. This is what I have been saying for awhile now. Egypt ruled Canaan:

No claim needed. Egypt held it for a long time, and some cultural assimilation is to be expected.

(May I lapse in Archaeologist-Speak for a moment?) Finkelstein and Silverman were probably right as far as no external conquest of the Canaanites took place. The pottery stayed consistent, and the walk between it and Egypt was short enough that the supposedly-long treks in the Bible took only a few weeks. Records in Egypt mentioned such tribes dropping by for a year or two. There is no reason to imagine any other treks than the occasional, "We'll give you camels if you give us wheat," deals.

People who approach Archaeology from a "It's all scientific!" and not a "For thousands of years people have tried to cut the best deal," standpoint have come out as morons. Modern teaching methods may teach otherwise, but I have had decades of fun [del]showing how they are morons[/del] pointing out their fallacies.

 

[eccles]

"People who approach Archaeology from a "It's all scientific!" and not a "For thousands of years people have tried to cut the best deal," standpoint have come out as morons"

Well the main tools of Biblical Archaeologists are a Bible and a Spade - in that order.



Robert

 

[Dancing David]

No claim needed. Egypt held it for a long time, and some cultural assimilation is to be expected.

(May I lapse in Archaeologist-Speak for a moment?) Finkelstein and Silverman were probably right as far as no external conquest of the Canaanites took place. The pottery stayed consistent, and the walk between it and Egypt was short enough that the supposedly-long treks in the Bible took only a few weeks. Records in Egypt mentioned such tribes dropping by for a year or two. There is no reason to imagine any other treks than the occasional, "We'll give you camels if you give us wheat," deals.

People who approach Archaeology from a "It's all scientific!" and not a "For thousands of years people have tried to cut the best deal," standpoint have come out as morons. Modern teaching methods may teach otherwise, but I have had decades of fun [del]showing how they are morons[/del] pointing out their fallacies.

Well there are a lot of poseurs who pretend to be archaeologists but aren't. there are those who use the scientific method and then there are those who would be ebtter termed 'art historians'.


Good arcaeology is based upon economics, population determinations and sampling. Of course there was trade between Caanan and Egypt, my goodness trade goods travelled around europe and africa during the stone age.

 

[Dancing David]

"People who approach Archaeology from a "It's all scientific!" and not a "For thousands of years people have tried to cut the best deal," standpoint have come out as morons"

Well the main tools of Biblical Archaeologists are a Bible and a Spade - in that order.

[qimg]http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/imagehosting/338944a84aa90d2878.png[/qimg]

[qimg]http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/imagehosting/338944a927d97a44d4.png[/qimg] Robert

And a lot of self referencing garbage.

they haven't understood the lesson of Schleimann or why it matters.

 

[Ladewig]

Bumped for an answer.

Which reference book are you talking about:

Also, are you talking about "The Archeology Bible" by William Stephens or
"The Archaeological Study Bible: An Illustrated Walk Through Biblical History and Culture" by Walter C. Kaiser, Jr. ?

 

[eccles]

I just got invited to be a Friend of David Warmflash on Facebook.
Here is his BIO:

I'm an astrobiologist and lead investigator for Phobos-LIFE, a Planetary Society-sponsored biology experiment which will be carried aboard the Russian Space Agency's upcoming Phobos-Grunt probe, exposing out biological samples to 34 months of the interplanetary radiation environment. I enjoy writing about science, evolution, the ancient Near East, and biblical criticism. Additionally, I like to discuss Middle East affairs and other foreign policy issues.

As soon as he read my thank you note that also outlined my interest in Judeo/Christianity he e-mailed me back. I was suprised to see his articles refuting the Bible.

Here is the link to his page on "Helium" All articles by him are worth reading, especially the religious ones.

http://www.helium.com/users/524036/show_articles

My contacts are getting better and better.



Robert

 

[pakeha]

Thanks for the link, eccles.
I especially liked the ideas about Solomon, really an interesting theory:
http://www.helium.com/items/1517422-king-solomons-story-and-the-case-for-samarian-origins

 

[eccles]

I just finished reading all the stuff here:

The Jury Is In
The Ruling on McDowell's "Evidence"
Jeffery Jay Lowder (editor)

http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/jeff_lowder/jury/.

That is some debunking. Josh McDowell needs a nice padded cell in a quiet looney bin. Anyone who still believes the bible should join him.



Robert

 

[amb]

There wouldn't be a padded cell big enough to hold all the believers in this world. For the love of Apollo, 40% of the worlds population still believe the cosmos were created around 6 thousand years ago by gawd.!!! The amazing thing is that a huge percentage are in every other way, quite intelligent people.

 

[dafydd]

There wouldn't be a padded cell big enough to hold all the believers in this world. For the love of Apollo, 40% of the worlds population still believe the cosmos were created around 6 thousand years ago by gawd.!!! The amazing thing is that a huge percentage are in every other way, quite intelligent people.

Yes,that is a puzzle.

 

[Ladewig]

There wouldn't be a padded cell big enough to hold all the believers in this world. For the love of Apollo, 40% of the worlds population still believe the cosmos were created around 6 thousand years ago by gawd.!!!

I think you're off by at least an order of magnitude.

Here's a thread devoted to Young Earth Creationism in the U.S.

 

[Simon39759]

There wouldn't be a padded cell big enough to hold all the believers in this world. For the love of Apollo, 40% of the worlds population still believe the cosmos were created around 6 thousand years ago by gawd.!!! The amazing thing is that a huge percentage are in every other way, quite intelligent people.

Cognitive dissonance. They just reject reason and critical thinking on this very particular and specific piece of information. When confronted to it, they cherry-pick evidences and rationalize their aforementioned conclusion.
People do it pretty much all the time.

 

[amb]

I think you're off by at least an order of magnitude.

Here's a thread devoted to Young Earth Creationism in the U.S.

Doesn't that figure of only 19% who said the babble was the writings of savages [my italics] worry you? Overall, that 40% figure IS accurate.

 

[Ladewig]

Doesn't that figure of only 19% who said the babble was the writings of savages [my italics] worry you?

no.

Overall, that 40% figure IS accurate.

No, it is not. Only 33% of the world's population is Christian. The number of young earth creationists (Y.E.C.) outside the U.S. is negligible. Inside the U.S., there are only a few Christian denominations that preach young earth creationism. The statistics for these conclusions are detailed in the other thread.

If you believe that 40% of the world is YEC, then please provide your documentation.

 

[kurious_kathy]

There wouldn't be a padded cell big enough to hold all the believers in this world. For the love of Apollo, 40% of the worlds population still believe the cosmos were created around 6 thousand years ago by gawd.!!! The amazing thing is that a huge percentage are in every other way, quite intelligent people.

Then why are you accusing Christians of being crazy?

It is said in scripture that God uses the foolish things of the world to confound the wise, and I have to tell you this is what I am seeing. Jesus himself says if people do not change and become like little children we cannot enter the kingdom of heaven, so what's holding you back from simplifying your life? I'll choose a life of faith over anything else this world may try to offer me, because I know this world cannot satisfy me. Only God can satisfy me, and the promise of a new heaven and earth keep me going.

As for the archaeology proof, well there is some, but you know it's old news that either you receive as truth or you deny because you don't want to believe it's true. If you need proof for the Bible's validity there is much more than just archaeology proof available.

 

[Simon39759]

Hummm: 'If you are not convinced, you are thinking too had, try dumbing yourself down a bit and you'll be Christians soon enough'... hardly the best argument you can make.

 

[RoboTimbo]

Then why are you accusing Christians of being crazy?

It is said in scripture that God uses the foolish things of the world to confound the wise, and I have to tell you this is what I am seeing. Jesus himself says if people do not change and become like little children we cannot enter the kingdom of heaven, so what's holding you back from simplifying your life? I'll choose a life of faith over anything else this world may try to offer me, because I know this world cannot offer me very much.

How does gratuitous prosletyzing address the OP?