Alpha course saboteur

[Nonpareil]

Hi, I've been a lurker on this forum for a while but not generally inclined to post and have been passively involved in the atheist/skeptical movement for several years. I feel that it is about time I did something about these issues rather than just getting involved in pointless debates with people who are unlikely to change their minds.

A friend and I were thinking of trying some practical atheism by joining an alpha course in order to ask difficult questions and maybe plant a few seed of doubt amongst the agnostics. I'm not planning on starting blazing rows, I would be pretending to be a hopeful agnostic who saw the value of the church as a community but had problems with blind faith and I feel this would give me license to ask questions that they would not have satisfactory answers for.

I was interested to know if people on this forum would think this is a good idea, or am I being needlessly confrontational. I am also interested to know if anyone has any ideas or resources that may help me.

thanks

Bad idea. Not only are you being needlessly confrontational, but you are putting yourself in a no-win situation. There is no possible situation where this can turn out well for you. Simply because you would be outnumbered by believers, any question you asked or argument you raise would be mocked or ignored while they bashed on your unbelief.
Sorta like what happens here, but in reverse and with less logic.

Anyway, welcome to the JREF!

 

[Luciferlite]

Thanks for all your responses.

I still intend to enrol, but your responses, and those from others that I have consulted, have definitely changed my tactics. I think now I will attend more as an observer for my own interest, and in order to write about my experience. I am obsessively interested in religion of all kinds and this is reason enough to attend, even if only for a few weeks. I would be unlikely to challenge anything that is said, and if I did it would be away from the meetings and towards the end of the course.

I don't want to give the impression that I want to overthrow all religion, even if I thought this was possible. I understand that religion is an important part of the human condition, but I feel that organised religion needs to be challenged in order to reduce it's political and social power.

I am aware that I can be overly strident in my atheism, I am told that this is a natural reaction for many people who feel they were cheated by religion.

 

[HansMustermann]

I still think it's a bad idea, because cults tend to be _good_ at persuasion techniques. And approaching it from a confrontational posture can actually be used against you, aikido style. Several brainwashing techniques actually rely on your being hostile to whatever they're trying to sell you. Some of the most deranged cults are full of people who thought this can't possibly happen to them. And if you could raise the dead and ask them, you'd probably find that several who drank the kool aid at Jonestown, a couple of years before they could have sworn that nobody can fool them like that.

Please don't take it as patronizing, but just as genuine concern. But then again, it's your choice.

 

[Simon39759]

Passively attending for information purpose seems good. I don't think that the Alpha course is really a cult insofar as they do not immerse you or follow up to force you in.
But they certainly do seem to use methods that seem derived from that of cults, as if somebody had look at a cult and cynically decided to apply their recruitment methods to mainstream Christianity.

It might be good to brush-up on your cult literature before going, so that you can identify these techniques when they are used, if only because it is one of the important thing to observe.

 

[dlorde]

... any question you asked or argument you raise would be mocked or ignored while they bashed on your unbelief.

As I understand it, a technique they (the team leaders) commonly use is to disarm you by honestly sympathising with your disbelief, anger, frustration, etc., and trying to 'help' you deal with it, without pressure. This 'honest', sympathetic warmth, without the happy-clappy blinkers you expect, can be far more effective than mockery, particularly in a group setting.

 

[Marquis de Carabas]

Do it.

 

[Perfume V]

I think it would be an interesting thing to write about, and a well-written critical article from an inside perspective has the potential to be a more effective skeptical tool than challenging the people attending the course - not least because an article could reach many, many more people than just those who are on one particular course.

I watched Jon Ronson's film on Alpha and I was struck by two connected things:

1) Atheist and agnostic ideas were fairly openly debated in the earlier weeks of the course, and
2) The people running the course seemed remarkably smug about their ability to deflect such ideas.

For example, in one scene Ronson interviewed the group leaders after a session and they said that all the questions they got from agnostics and atheists were so predictable, like "Why does god allow bad things to happen?" In fact, they had a pamphlet specially designed to address that question... and it turned out that all it said was, basically, "God moves in mysterious ways and it's not for us to question him". They looked so superior, so utterly confident of their ability to deal with that issue, and yet their answer to it was so completely pathetic.

 

[arthwollipot]

Thanks for all your responses.

I still intend to enrol, but your responses, and those from others that I have consulted, have definitely changed my tactics. I think now I will attend more as an observer for my own interest, and in order to write about my experience. I am obsessively interested in religion of all kinds and this is reason enough to attend, even if only for a few weeks. I would be unlikely to challenge anything that is said, and if I did it would be away from the meetings and towards the end of the course.

I don't want to give the impression that I want to overthrow all religion, even if I thought this was possible. I understand that religion is an important part of the human condition, but I feel that organised religion needs to be challenged in order to reduce it's political and social power.

I am aware that I can be overly strident in my atheism, I am told that this is a natural reaction for many people who feel they were cheated by religion.

I fully support this approach to the subject. Please let us know how you get on.

 

[Akhenaten]

Thanks for all your responses.

I still intend to enrol, but your responses, and those from others that I have consulted, have definitely changed my tactics. I think now I will attend more as an observer for my own interest, and in order to write about my experience. I am obsessively interested in religion of all kinds and this is reason enough to attend, even if only for a few weeks. I would be unlikely to challenge anything that is said, and if I did it would be away from the meetings and towards the end of the course.

I don't want to give the impression that I want to overthrow all religion, even if I thought this was possible. I understand that religion is an important part of the human condition, but I feel that organised religion needs to be challenged in order to reduce it's political and social power.

I am aware that I can be overly strident in my atheism, I am told that this is a natural reaction for many people who feel they were cheated by religion.

Now you're talking,

Welcome aboard, you little devil you.


Cheers,

Dave

 

[Mr Clingford]

I do find it laughable to have Alpha Courses labelled as cults. They are very varied. I have been on one myself, talked to others who have attended them and viewed the Jon Ronson programme with its little biases.

I'm not sure that you can really generalise too much about Alpha Courses because they depend a lot on the people running them. They are generally from the evangelical conservative end of the spectrum and can tend to suggest that there are Xtian right answers to questions, aspects which mean that lots of Xtians don't like the Alpha Course approach.

What type of church is running the course - what is their type of Xtianity?