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How much would vegetarianism benefit humanity?

I mean, seriously - whatever you currently eat, McHrozni, eat that, minus the meat and dairy and plus some more beans, pretty much. Whatever you currently have for breakfast, have that - substituting dairy milk for rice or quinoa milk. Whatever you have for lunch, eat that, but replace any meat content with things like hummus. Your options are infinite.
 
volatile said:
I mean, seriously - whatever you currently eat, McHrozni, eat that, minus the meat and dairy and plus some more beans, pretty much. Whatever you currently have for breakfast, have that - substituting dairy milk for rice or quinoa milk. Whatever you have for lunch, eat that, but replace any meat content with things like hummus. Your options are infinite.
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Tasteless, mindless rubbish!
 
Professor Yaffle said:
PS I have never before heard someone with coeliac disease describe gluten-free as a "minor restriction".
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No, it's a true pain, very restricting. I've worked as a vegetarian cook in several occasions, and have some good, balanced recipies suitable for those with coeliac. For grains you can offer rice, millet, quinoa or spelt (depending on the severity of the disease). Nowadays there are also various different glutein free versions of pasta, a whole world of glutein free bread etc. Unfortunately most of these products (not rice and millet) are a bit expensive. But in no way is it impossible or even hard for someone suffering from coeliac disease to keep up a satisfying, healthy vegan or vegetarian diet!
 
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Perpetual Student, you come across as a fairly bitter person with somekind of grudge towards vegetarians or vegans. I wonder why? Seriously. Where you devoid of meat when growing up or something?
 
Aepervius said:
As for teh rest about smoking : of course, and this goes well along my argument, that the red meat is not the ultimate cause, the people with their bad habits are. And that habits would not be solved by vegetarianism as the thread thematic is, those people would take OTHER bad habits.
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But what the article was saying was that the researchers allowed for the effects of those bad habits in their analysis of their findings. So presumably they made estimates of the amount those other bad habits were likely to increase the risk of dying, and then still found that red meat was increasing the risk, above and beyond the effects of those other things.

And it isn't necessarily true that if those people turned vegetarian, they'd find some new bad habit to compensate for giving up red meat. They might still be increasing their risk of premature death because of all their other bad habits; but it might go down a bit at least.
 
Tapio said:
Perpetual Student, you come across as a fairly bitter person with somekind of grudge towards vegetarians or vegans. I wonder why? Seriously. Where you devoid of meat when growing up or something?
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No, it's merely that I find vegetarianism an absurd doctrine, not unlike astrology all other religions and superstitions.
 
Perpetual Student said:
No, it's merely that I find vegetarianism an absurd doctrine, not unlike astrology all other religions and superstitions.
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Simple fact is that we no longer have the space on this earth to graze ever-expanding herds of critters for meat and, simultaneously, produce enough calories to provide everyone an acceptable diet.

It is a pure matter of science that meat consumption can and should be scaled back in the developed countries.

There is nothing religious about wanting the methane levels reduced, or keeping the levels of nitrates in our drinking water down.
 
Professor Yaffle said:
Having coelic is a major drag in choosing food - but I really don't think it is that much more difficult for veggies than meat eaters.
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It is more difficult, since several meat replacements are based on wheat gluten - seitan is a prime example. It is debatable if it is "much" more difficult or not, since this is a personal opinion.

This can be the only thing we can agree upon on this particular topic, really. Since how something is difficult is a personal opinion we can not objectively say for most things that something is easy, whereas something is difficult. We can say something is easier than something else (like I did above and before), but that's pretty much it.

McHrozni
 
McHrozni said:
It is more difficult, since several meat replacements are based on wheat gluten - seitan is a prime example. It is debatable if it is "much" more difficult or not, since this is a personal opinion.

This can be the only thing we can agree upon on this particular topic, really. Since how something is difficult is a personal opinion we can not objectively say for most things that something is easy, whereas something is difficult. We can say something is easier than something else (like I did above and before), but that's pretty much it.

McHrozni
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You haven't explained why you think it's difficult. All the ingredients for a nutritionally-balanced vegan diet - even one without soy and wheat - are sold in the same stores as the food you currently buy. The recipes are not more complicated. Getting adequate nutrition is not more difficult. What do you mean?
 
Cuddles said:
Baby Nemesis - if you continue the gratuitous personal attacks you are likely to face further mod action, up to and including suspension or banning.
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Don't worry; I was simply seized with a mad holiday spirit on the bank holiday Monday and let my hair down and revelled in the joys of merry dissolute frivolity tinged with righteous anger for a while. I'll try not to let it happen again in a hurry.

volatile said:
What made you think that vegans have to go to "extreme lengths"? A nutritionally-complete vegan diet, supplement free, is available from the same stores you currently buy your omnivorous goods from.
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I've heard that the only way it's possible to get vitamin B12 from non-animal sources is by eating a type of seaweed, and that even that doesn't contain it in a form the body can readily absorb. Is that the case, or are there any other plant sources?
 
Baby Nemesis said:
I've heard that the only way it's possible to get vitamin B12 from non-animal sources is by eating a type of seaweed, and that even that doesn't contain it in a form the body can readily absorb. Is that the case, or are there any other plant sources?
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B12 is a complicated one, and you're right that veggies alone cannot provide B12. That said, it's not hard to get into your diet at all. Marmite. Nutritional yeast. Most non-dairy milks, margarines, breakfast cereals etc. are fortified with synthesised B12, and the RDA is tiny. Not a problem.
 
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volatile said:
You haven't explained why you think it's difficult. All the ingredients for a nutritionally-balanced vegan diet - even one without soy and wheat - are sold in the same stores as the food you currently buy. The recipes are not more complicated. Getting adequate nutrition is not more difficult. What do you mean?
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This last week, not deliberately and without really trying, my wife and I have managed to eat a completely vegan diet. We were too busy to get to the supermarket, so we just used what was already in the kitchen.

Chilli without ground beef is arguably even easier to make than chilli with beef, for example.

Yeah, it really isn't that complicated.
 
Pipirr said:
This last week, not deliberately and without really trying, my wife and I have managed to eat a completely vegan diet. We were too busy to get to the supermarket, so we just used what was already in the kitchen.

Chilli without ground beef is arguably even easier to make than chilli with beef, for example.

Yeah, it really isn't that complicated.
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True, it isn't complicated. It also isn't 'chilli'. Call it what it is: tomato and bean soup. Sounds delicious to me, and I'd happily sit down to some for dinner. 'Vegetarian chilli' sounds disgusting to me (unless it's made with freshly ground free-range vegetarians :p). A falafel and salad sandwich is a real treat. "Veggie burger" sounds about as appetizing as a hockey puck.

Don't get me wrong, I regularly make completely vegetarian meals, and I remained vegan for 6 months when I was an impressionable young college student and I was swayed by some of moralistic justifications for that lifestyle that I now believe are bogus.

I just have a pet-peeve about naming foods with familiar lables when they really are something else entirely.

What I found 'difficult' about remaining vegan was almost entirely emotional and social. Finding ingredients for cooking at home is easy anywhere near a major urban center. Learning the recipes--actually many of them are a heck of a lot easier than making proper barbecue.

But I want to go to the steakhouse with my friends. I derive genuine pleasure inviting loved ones over to share a pork shoulder that I've brined for 3 days and smoked overnight with pecan wood chips (If anyone has a vegan recipe that provides even a fraction of the culinary bliss I get from good pulled pork, I'll eat my polyester fleece ski hat!).

I quit veganism because it made me feel impoverished.

For that entire six months I was miserable, and I felt compelled to paper over my misery by constantly commisserating with my vegetarian friends, wallowing in a false sense of superiority because we were losing weight, and had more energy, and were obviously healthier, while pointing disdainful fingers at our still omnivorous acquaintances who were happy to ignore us on their way to celebrate summer with burgers and bratwurst at a backyard barbecue.

If vegetarianism really does make some people happy, great, more power to them. I've got plenty of moral causes to sacrifice my time and energy to, so when I have a little time to enjoy with my family and friends, I want to make the most of it, and for me that usually means meat--and lot's of it.
 
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