Amway TV ad

[Tex2]

How much money you're making in Amway has nothing to do with whether it's a good or bad business? Go figure.

That's right, just like pouring a glass of water into the Atlantic Ocean has nothing to do with whether a hurricane will grow stronger or weaken.

 

[cyborg]

Your question is similar to asking: Why would I ever deposit money at a bank for a smaller interest rate, when a bank robber makes much more?

Well no, it isn't similar to that in any way.

A better banking based analogy is:

If my bonus payments are based on the financial performance of my underlings and that financial performance is substantially improved by questionable financial practices why would I want to continue with this system if there was a regulatory crackdown that made it impossible to continue getting a bonus that makes it worthwhile?

 

[Tex2]

Well no, it isn't similar to that in any way. >>>> Of course it is similar. Robbing a bank is similar to the tool scam, an unethical and immoral manner of making money. Putting money in the bank and receiving the known, above board profit is similar to making Amway profit.

A better banking based analogy is: >>>> I doubt it.

If my bonus payments are based on the financial performance of my underlings and that financial performance is substantially improved by questionable financial practices why would I want to continue with this system if there was a regulatory crackdown that made it impossible to continue getting a bonus that makes it worthwhile?

You are describing the Amway business, minus the tool scam, that is present, in varying degrees and models, in China, the UK, India, and Russia. I suggest you tell me how those businesses are doing prior to claiming you have a better analogy.

You are also ignoring the FACT that without a tool scam, a MUCH higher percentage of IBOs will make a net profit, so how is this not better?

 

[Almo]

You are also ignoring the FACT that without a tool scam, a MUCH higher percentage of IBOs will make a net profit, so how is this not better?

Your "FACT" is disputed. If these IBOs are making money selling tools, and they stop selling tools, replacing that with only product sales (which are lower profit margin) how will their net profit go up?

 

[Tex2]

Your "FACT" is disputed. If these IBOs are making money selling tools, and they stop selling tools, replacing that with only product sales (which are lower profit margin) how will their net profit go up?

It is impossible to dispute a fact. You can misunderstand it, however. Go back and look at my A + B equation. It is OBVIOUS the LCK profit will decrease, that's the idea. However, we're talking about the 1% or so of tool scammers, compared to the 99% or so of the tool scammed IBOs. Also, I'm not suggesting tools should no longer be sold, but sold for less, resulting in less profit.

Seriously, this is SIMPLE math.

 

[Skeptic]

Tex, for the love of God, learn to use the quote function!!!!

 

[cyborg]

Of course it is similar. Robbing a bank is similar to the tool scam, an unethical and immoral manner of making money. Putting money in the bank and receiving the known, above board profit is similar to making Amway profit.

No, it isn't - the analogy completely fails to capture any relationship between the legitimate user of the bank and the robber. This is why it is a poor analogy - it fails to be an analog.

I doubt it.

That's a statement, not an analogy.

You are describing the Amway business, minus the tool scam, that is present, in varying degrees and models, in China, the UK, India, and Russia.

So you're saying these businesses use questionable financial practices?

You are also ignoring the FACT that without a tool scam, a MUCH higher percentage of IBOs will make a net profit, so how is this not better?

Again: this is a higher percentage of a much lesser amount. The entire MLM model is undermined by this fact.

 

[Tex2]

Tex, for the love of God, learn to use the quote function!!!!

Skeptic, for the love of God, learn to keep your posts shorter!!!! LOL

Also, I've used the ">>>>" mark, or something similar, on other blogs. I'm not going to type the bracket/quote whatever for every statement on every post. It's a waste of time, especially considering how you don't understand simple math. LOL

The tool scam issue isn't so complex that it takes multiple points on every single post.

 

[Tex2]

No, it isn't - the analogy completely fails to capture any relationship between the legitimate user of the bank and the robber. This is why it is a poor analogy - it fails to be an analog. >>>> The analogy isn't INTENDED to capture the relationship between the legitimate user of the bank and the robber. It is intended to show the relationship between making money in an honest and ethical manner, compared to a dishonest and unethical manner. LOL

That's a statement, not an analogy. >>>> It's an analogy, not a statement.

So you're saying these businesses use questionable financial practices? >>>> No, I'm saying they DON'T have a tool scam, yet are successful Amway business locations.

Again: this is a higher percentage of a much lesser amount. The entire MLM model is undermined by this fact.

Your last statement made no sense to me.

Here's my prayer: Dear God, PLEASE put someone on this forum with a teeny tiny amount of common sense. Amen. LOL

 

[Porkchopjim]

Then why didn't you say that when icerat posted it a couple of pages ago? I also know YOUR "MO", stating Amway products are comparable to the lowest cost, generic Walmart products. They aren't.

I didn't have to say it – you're the only one who bought it. No one else here did. Just as I said earlier. So, thanks for showing I'm right again! Oh – don't forget to call me a 'liar'. That seems to be working!

Now, it's true you can't compare Walmart products with Amway products. When people buy from Walmart they usually get a very good deal for the price. That can't be said for Amway products.

I think you are partially correct with this, but the recent price reductions and rumors of future significant price cuts are encouraging.

Yawn. So what. 'Accreditation' was 'encouraging'. At best you might be able to say that Amway products are now just overpriced instead of outrageously overpriced. Real progress!

Pretty sure that doesn't lower the amount of money an IBO has to spend in order to qualify for his 'bonus' check. He just has to buy more things than before. Who's got time for that when you've got all those valuable tapes to listen to?

You are so ignorant it's ridiculous. LOL

You already admitted earlier to losing at least $40K in Amway. As far as ignorant – I at least know that you have to sell a product in order to make a profit. You still haven't grasped that one.

Tex I honestly think part of your problem here is your incoherent writing style. It was a lot easier to talk to you on the phone than to deal with you in the forum here.

It's not his writing style that's incoherent. Tex prefers the phone because there is no record of what was actually said. It's a lot easier to claim someone is lying when there's just his word against someone else's.

You'll notice the 'liar' claim gets thrown around a lot - even when that's been shown repeatedly here not to be the case.

Since he's figured out that he wasn't actually 'banned' from here and only his posts were moved, he's now going to lobby to get officially kicked off...thus the rapid 'last word' comments over and over again.

At least he's here and not doing damage anywhere else.

 

[Tex2]

I didn't have to say it – you're the only one who bought it. No one else here did. Just as I said earlier. So, thanks for showing I'm right again! Oh – don't forget to call me a 'liar'. That seems to be working! >>>> You, or anyone else, also didn't have anything to say that he was wrong. Is the new reality that being silent makes something false? So yes, you are a liar. LOL

Now, it's true you can't compare Walmart products with Amway products. When people buy from Walmart they usually get a very good deal for the price. That can't be said for Amway products. >>>> I did a price comparison 3 years ago, prior to the price cuts, and showed competitive prices for several products. So yes, you are a liar. LOL

Yawn. So what. 'Accreditation' was 'encouraging'. At best you might be able to say that Amway products are now just overpriced instead of outrageously overpriced. Real progress! >>>> I came out against accreditation within days after it being announced. That's what. If the prices, for many but not all products, were competitive before the price reductions, they are even better now. LOL

Pretty sure that doesn't lower the amount of money an IBO has to spend in order to qualify for his 'bonus' check. He just has to buy more things than before. Who's got time for that when you've got all those valuable tapes to listen to? >>>> The IBO doesn't have to spend any set amount, in fact they could spend zero if they choose to retail a lot, which would be counter-intuitive, however. Which is probably why this makes sense to you! LOL

With Ditto Delivery, it takes NO extra time after the initial setup. LOL

You already admitted earlier to losing at least $40K in Amway. >>>> And I'm far from alone. LOL

As far as ignorant – I at least know that you have to sell a product in order to make a profit. You still haven't grasped that one. >>>> I "grasped" that a LONG time ago. This is an example of a repeated putdown that gets return "bed-pan" comments, so if the rest of you stay silent, stand by....LOL

It's not his writing style that's incoherent. Tex prefers the phone because there is no record of what was actually said. It's a lot easier to claim someone is lying when there's just his word against someone else's. >>>> Neither my writing or speech is incoherent, unless you happen to be highly illogical, which seems to be common on this forum. LOL For example, neither Newton or I have called each other liars. In fact, he has made several statements regarding how well the conversation went, so your statement, as usual, is total and complete BS. Hence, your "profession." LOL

You'll notice the 'liar' claim gets thrown around a lot - even when that's been shown repeatedly here not to be the case. >>>> It's been proven for YEARS with you. LOL

Since he's figured out that he wasn't actually 'banned' from here and only his posts were moved, he's now going to lobby to get officially kicked off...thus the rapid 'last word' comments over and over again. >>>> I was temporarily "banned", which has happened on other sites as well. I have never lobbied to get officially kicked off of any site, but there are several that did not treat me equally with others, so it's been a pleasure to be "banned" from them. The "last word" has NOTHING to do with this site, it has to do with mine. LOL

At least he's here and not doing damage anywhere else. >>>> Rest assured I am doing damage in other places, this site is a small part of the big picture. LOL

 

[NewtonTrino]

I for one have completely quit reading posts using the >>>> quote style. Come on Tex, can't you at least be courteous? Can't you show some common courtesy to those you are discussing this stuff wioth? What does that say about you and your values? What this imply about amway ibos?

 

[Tex2]

I for one have completely quit reading posts using the >>>> quote style. >>>> Okay with me. LOL

Come on Tex, can't you at least be courteous? >>>> No. LOL

Can't you show some common courtesy to those you are discussing this stuff wioth? >>>> No. LOL

What does that say about you and your values? >>>> That you're not worth my time. LOL

What this imply about amway ibos? >>>> Absolutely nothing. LOL

 

[cyborg]

Your last statement made no sense to me.

Yes, this kinda underlines the entire point here.

You don't seem to be interested in real money: just in the abstract promise of it.

The analogy isn't INTENDED to capture the relationship between the legitimate user of the bank and the robber.

Then it fails to accurately capture the situation.

No, I'm saying they DON'T have a tool scam, yet are successful Amway business locations.

Then I really don't think you understand what I'm saying because there is no way that your previous statement could sensibly follow on from what I said and strengthen your argument.

 

[Tex2]

Yes, this kinda underlines the entire point here. >>>> You have no point.

I said: You are also ignoring the FACT that without a tool scam, a MUCH higher percentage of IBOs will make a net profit, so how is this not better?

You said: Again: this is a higher percentage of a much lesser amount. The entire MLM model is undermined by this fact.

Do you mean a higher percentage of IBOs will be making less money each, compared to the tool scam scenario, where a small percentage of LCK IBOs make more money each? Explain yourself.

You don't seem to be interested in real money: just in the abstract promise of it. >>>> I'm interested in the real tool scam money being stopped, there's nothing abstract about that.

Then it fails to accurately capture the situation. >>>> It accurately captures what I intended, that's the idea of an analogy. Too bad you're too scared to make a simple phone call, because this could easily be straightened out. LOL

Then I really don't think you understand what I'm saying because there is no way that your previous statement could sensibly follow on from what I said and strengthen your argument.

I asked you to explain yourself, yet you refused to do so. LOL

 

[cyborg]

I said: You are also ignoring the FACT that without a tool scam, a MUCH higher percentage of IBOs will make a net profit, so how is this not better?

If one is producing a business to make money then the tool scam at least ensures someone is making a mediocre amount.

But, as you say, you're not interested in money, just in stopping the tool scam so someone else stops making money.

It accurately captures what I intended

Your failures as a communicator are not my fault.

Too bad you're too scared to make a simple phone call, because this could easily be straightened out. LOL

Your failures as a communicator are not my fault.

I asked you to explain yourself

No you didn't.

 

[Tex2]

If one is producing a business to make money then the tool scam at least ensures someone is making a mediocre amount. >>>> WRONG. The tool scam results in MUCH more than a mediocre amount. The Amway business produces more than a mediocre amount, as long as you don't expect to be a 100 PV millionaire. LOL

But, as you say, you're not interested in money, just in stopping the tool scam so someone else stops making money. >>>> WRONG. I'm interested in stopping the LCKs from making the tool scam money so many more IBOs, myself included, can make money. LOL

Your failures as a communicator are not my fault. >>>> Your limitations as a thinker are not my fault. LOL

Your failures as a communicator are not my fault. >>>> Your fear as a phone caller are not my fault. LOL

No you didn't.

Yes I did. I said, "Your last statement made no sense to me." LOL

But that's okay, at least you're consistent! LOL

 

[NewtonTrino]

To follow up on the general point here NOBODY in amway seems to be interested in money. "If you do the work the money will follow" is the mantra. Other than that they talk more about pv, pins levels "gotta go diamond" etc. Nobody asks their upline how much money they are making.

So Tex is really just following the party line here. Talking about how much money you've lost is taboo...

 

[Tex2]

To follow up on the general point here NOBODY in amway seems to be interested in money. >>>> You couldn't be more wrong. I'm interested in getting rid of the tool scam money so more people can make a net profit with the Amway money. LOL

"If you do the work the money will follow" is the mantra. >>>> Yes, it is the mantra with most businesses, except most businesses don't have a tool scam. LOL

Other than that they talk more about pv, pins levels "gotta go diamond" etc. Nobody asks their upline how much money they are making. >>>> I did. They only answer after they are booted. LOL

So Tex is really just following the party line here. >>>> Not even close. LOL

Talking about how much money you've lost is taboo... >>>> I've said on numerous occasions I've lost a lot of money to the tool scam. Keep repeating YOUR mantras, it makes for excellent IBO training material! LOL

 

[Porkchopjim]

You, or anyone else, also didn't have anything to say that he was wrong. Is the new reality that being silent makes something false? So yes, you are a liar. LOL

I forgot you don't read other people's posts. If you had, you'd have noticed that the NEXT THREE POSTS after the one you loved were all negative. Try not to get too much reality on you...I know it doesn't agree with you.

Along those lines, who cares what your current re-write of history is regarding your ‘nappy-headed-ho’ comment is? It keeps changing, and every time it does, you end up changing it AGAIN. First, it was to make ‘all your black friends’ laugh. When asked if ‘all your black friends’ were as imaginary as your Amway ‘group’ – you replied that as part of cutting edge social commentary, you – a 50+ year old white failed Amway salesman from Texas – would go out with ‘all your black friends’ and call them racial slurs in public just to see people’s reactions.

Well, that got called out – again – and months afterwards your story has morphed into “I did it to call attention to how people are stuck on labels.” Right.

Don’t let the fact that you whipped out ‘Jew-Boy’ – with another fabricated ‘justification’ – to show just how socially conscious you really are.

Now – back to what Tex doesn’t know (besides that products have to be SOLD to someone other than yourself to make a profit): contrary to your ‘severed head’ attempt at dodging the question …which the judge even EXPLICITLY said that there was no ‘severed head’ as you like to pretend UK Amway Judgement (re: para. 50)…

What was the UK complaint against the ‘tools’ ? You’ve had over a year to get someone to read that to you. Insider, whose word you seem to take for gospel now, has even painstakingly explained it to you.

This is a pretty important blind spot you need to get over, once we cure you of that nasty habit of trying to rewrite history.

Rest assured I am doing damage in other places, this site is a small part of the big picture. LOL

Your family being one that comes to mind....