9/11-investigator explains the Holocaust

[Thunder]

The vaste majority of historians are parrots.

is this because they say what you do not want them to say?

they say that the Holocaust happened, which you do not want to hear. therefore they are parrots?

 

[BNRT]

This stinks like the post with "all reliable statistics support...". In other words: only those stats are reliable, which support my position, and only those are intelligent, reasonable people, who agree with me.

No, I only support the position which has the most reliable 'stats'. I only tend to support people who I think are intelligent and reasonable.

Only a tiny fraction of people studied WWII in "great detail". The vaste majority of historians are parrots. In how many publications have you read about soap made out of Jewish inmates?

Why most of the historians parrots?

Furthermore, those, who are studying history in great details, are not free to express what they found. Every dissenter is stamped immediately as Nazi, Anti-Semite (of course, being Anti-Semite is much worse than being Anti-Muslim or Anti-German or Anti-American).

Expressing dissenting opinion causes criminal charges in some states, punishable not only by fine but by inprisonment. This occurs regularly in Germany (Germans tend towards totalitarianism), in France, etc. Even in other countries the stamp "Holocaust denier" causes loss of employment and more.

So, saying that the "majority of intelligent... people..." in this relation is dishonest, to say the least.

Funny, how you can completely and utterly miss every point I made in my post. I meant that judging what is right ccording to the opinion of the majority of people probably wouldn't get you very far. However, if you trust the maority of experts, there's less chance to go wrong. It might not be an absolute law and I might not have expressed myself very well, but that is what I meant. Nowhere was I dishonest.

 

[Rogue1stclass]

Since we keep coming back to "Euro-Americans" and immigration, I think that I should point out that most of the people coming into America these days are people of European ancestry. On top of that, they still tend to practice a religion and speak languages that came directly from ancient Rome.

So, there's that, for what it's worth.

 

[Uninvolved]

No, I only support the position which has the most reliable 'stats'. I only tend to support people who I think are intelligent and reasonable

Of course you do; that's natural.

Which stats are reliable?

Example: someone posted numbers re the Jewish population in some countries, pre- and post-war. The source of the Polish pre-war number was the Polish exile government in England (there was no census in Poland after 1931). If one knows the extent of Polish Anti-Semitism, one understands, that the Polish exile government had an interest to guesstimate a much higher number than reality - they were trying to hide the fact, that Jews from Poland emmigrated.

An even more difficult issue: which historians do you regard reasonable? (Let's forget about "intelligent".)

Why most of the historians parrots?

For they don't do original research; they are citing each other. That way the claims become more and more reliable; the readers ask, seemingly rightly: can so many historians be wrong?

Can historians and eyewitnesses be wrong about the Germans creating soap from Jews' body? (Even William Shirer, one of the really big names, did not find it necessary to verify the legend.) Can historians and eyewitnesses be wrong about the lamps shades etc. cretaed from human skin? (Note: there is a solid core of this legend, but that is unknown for the wast majority of historians as well.) Can historians and witnesses (even participants) be wrong about Gleiwitz? Which historians go after the documents from the IMT processes, instead of taking them at face value?

David Irving was one, who did not shy away from going into the archives and found some original documents, wich surprized some historians. It's a pity, that he became too creative around fact.

Before I start reading a book on history, I look at the references: did the author copy from other books, or did (s)he look at the original documents? Did (s)he verify the authenticity of originals?

Nowhere was I dishonest.

I see what you mean; I apologize for that statement.

 

[Ashles]

I'm curious as to why holocaust deniers choose that event in particular to debate so rabidly. Since, you know, they are just dispassionate and non-agenda-driven amateur historians.

There are so many facts and events throughout history which you could also spend time demanding - 'Prove XXX event happened'.

I wonder why they choose this particular event to doubt so strongly?

Do they question all historical events equally? Do they spend this amount of time questioning how many really died at Agincourt? Were the casualties at the Battle of Bosworth really as many as described?

If not... why the Holocaust in particular? What has lead them to such doubt about this specific issue that is already pretty consistently agreed upon?

The cynical might suggest that they have an agenda first, then start the historical questioning. The other way round would appear highly odd.

I'm sure that has been adressed already in this and other threads, I just didn't fancy wading through the unpleasantness of too many holocaust denier (sorry, doubter) posts.

 

[9/11-investigator]

is this because they say what you do not want them to say?

they say that the Holocaust happened, which you do not want to hear. therefore they are parrots?

Parky seems to suggest that the vast majority of the public rather spends it's time reading revisionist books rather than watching American dol.

Come on Parky, you as well as I do that the public sees Schindler's List and keeps on hearing about the holocaust on an almost daily basis. They never hear anything else. Some call ik education, others brain washing.

 

[9/11-investigator]

Ah, this plaques says 1.5 million after being revised down from 4 million.
You are believing a lie.

"The sign at the memorial between the 2 cremation buildings that was removed in 1989 (photo: 1988)

The present sign at the memorial between the 2 cremation buildings (photo: 2001)"
http://www.air-photo.com/english/memo.html

To play de devil's advocate, there is a simple explanation for this: it was the Polish government who had decided that some 3 million Polish citizens were gassed as well. They must have thought, 'there is no business like Shoah-business' (a quip from Abba Eban, the Israeli foreign minister btw). As I understand it the Polish government withdrew it's untenable 3M claim at some point. But holocaust pope Raul Hilberg has from the start consistently claimed that ca.1.1 million Jews perished in Auschwitz. A number probably only 1.1 million minus 100,00 of the mark (according to the revisionists).

 

[9/11-investigator]

Really?

We were only kicked out violently of Indonesia as far as I can remember.

The Jews on the other hand were kicked out of almost every European Country at some point.

 

[9/11-investigator]

and you think that was a good thing? it was correct to send my great-aunt and her family to a concentration camp..where her husband and children were murdered?

are u ok with that? what crime did they commit that deserved expulsion and death?

No it is not a 'good thing' but neither is the burning alive of all those German Anne Frank's. The Jews don't have a patent on suffering although it is always portrayed as such. More than 50 million people died during WW2. According to you 4.5 million Jews died, according to the revisionists less than a million. That's horrendous, but on the scale of that mega-desaster it is 'in proportion' as compared to the rest.

 

[ddt]

We were only kicked out violently of Indonesia as far as I can remember.

You're "only" forgetting about Brazil, Nieuw Nederland/New York, Ghana, South Africa, Ceylon/Sri Lanka, India, Malay, Taiwan and Japan off the top of my hat. At least half of that you should have learnt in primary school.

 

[9/11-investigator]

Well, get as comfortable as you like. However, the US has made it through the Revolution, the Civil War, the Great Depression... The current issues we face (that you linked to), while serious, are in no way an indicator of "the end of times."

As to your link regarding people's perception of immigration, here is another take on the issue that argues that the US needs more immigration: http://article.nationalreview.com/?q=YjVhZDI5MDg4MGNkMzVlNTllMWZmMGQyMTZmOGIwZmE=

What's your point? You were accusing me of having an extremist view point regarding immigration. Then I tell you that the majority of
Euro-Americans think like I do and then you try to counter that with an opinion piece from neocon rag National Review with an author who worked for the Wallstreet Journal and who is probably Jewish and who says that we need more immigration! You just prove my point! There is a vocal minority pushing for turning the US in a third world country while the majority doesn't want it. And you don't understand why you guys always get kicked out of every country you set foot in. The next will be the US in the next decade. You cannot redefine nations without asking for deep, deep trouble.

Anyway, I'll read it in the newspaper what will happen to present day Weimar-USA.

 

[9/11-investigator]

You're "only" forgetting about Brazil, Nieuw Nederland/New York, Ghana, South Africa, Ceylon/Sri Lanka, India, Malay, Taiwan and Japan off the top of my hat. At least half of that you should have learnt in primary school.

You are missing the point. We are talking about being thrown out by the natives, not by our historic arch-enemy the British, which was what probably happened in most of the cases you mention.

Schoolgeld terughalen, meneertje.

 

[9/11-investigator]

I dunno. "Fear the power of the coming Dutch world domination!" doesn't have a credible ring to it, for some reason...

(...which, of course, is hardly a point against the Dutch.)

You haven't the faintest idea what an impact our intercontinental ballistic wooden shoe-II can have on the windows of a Wallstreet investment bank, the ones that wasted billions of Dutch pension fund money. Holland is one of the countries hardest hit as a consequence of the financial crisis since we are one of the most heavily involved investors in the US. Old ties, you know. The real name of Wallstreet is Walstraat, remember, before the British stole it from us.

 

[Twiler]

You haven't the faintest idea what an impact our intercontinental ballistic wooden shoe-II can have on the windows of a Wallstreet investment bank, the ones that wasted billions of Dutch pension fund money. Holland is one of the countries hardest hit as a consequence of the financial crisis since we are one of the most heavily involved investors in the US. Old ties, you know. The real name of Wallstreet is Walstraat, remember, before the British stole it from us.

1. What will happen?
2. When will it happen?
3. How do you know what will happen?

 

[9/11-investigator]

The majority of the people you mentioned also have average or below average intelligence (yes, that is an a priori statement). So that does not count for much. That is to say, what the majorty believes is not necesarily right because the majority say it or that less intelligent people are autmatically wrong.

Liking something or not has nothing to do with intelligence. It is true that the less intelligent, meaning the lower class and income has these views. Reason: they are confronted most with the consequences of mass immigration because they are stuck in the middle of all this 'wonderful diversity'. The rich people who are holding teh 'beautiful views' have the means of escaping the reality they helped creating. White flight is not an act of stupidity but of desperation.

However, holocaust deniers go against the opinion (if I may call it that) of the majority -if not all- of intelligent, reasonable people who have studied the second world war in great detail.

What you forget to consider is that holding revisionist views makes you a social outcast, so everybody who has doubts about the reality of the holocaust usually keeps his mouth shut. I for myself, although I am a very blunt person and no great diplomat is lost with me, I would not dream of even hinting at the issue during lunch with colleques.

My family and my closest friends know of my 'disgusting views' but that's it.

 

[9/11-investigator]

Since we keep coming back to "Euro-Americans" and immigration, I think that I should point out that most of the people coming into America these days are people of European ancestry./QUOTE]

Can you back that up with data? I highly doubt it. In the nineties... Silicon Valley... yes. But now? I have seen official figures that The Netherlands recently had a net influx of 2000 Americans. No idea if that were Euro-Americans. I have met quit a few in my career, mainly in Germany and Britain.

 

[Thunder]

The Jews on the other hand were kicked out of almost every European Country at some point.

Yes. European bigotry used to run very very deep. And it appears to still with a few folks between Belgium and Luxembourg.

 

[Twiler]

Liking something or not has nothing to do with intelligence. It is true that the less intelligent, meaning the lower class and income has these views. Reason: they are confronted most with the consequences of mass immigration because they are stuck in the middle of all this 'wonderful diversity'. The rich people who are holding teh 'beautiful views' have the means of escaping the reality they helped creating. White flight is not an act of stupidity but of desperation.



What you forget to consider is that holding revisionist views makes you a social outcast, so everybody who has doubts about the reality of the holocaust usually keeps his mouth shut. I for myself, although I am a very blunt person and no great diplomat is lost with me, I would not dream of even hinting at the issue during lunch with colleques.

My family and my closest friends know of my 'disgusting views' but that's it.

What about BNP leader Nick Griffin? He's hardly 'lower class'.

By the way, the majority of people know that Hastur rules the earth, but they're all too embarrassed to talk about it.

 

[Jontg]

Four million is the total number of casualties. 1.5 million is the number of Jewish casualties. Stop playing games with the dead, you festering stain.

 

[gtc]

Come on Parky, you as well as I do that the public sees Schindler's List and keeps on hearing about the holocaust on an almost daily basis. They never hear anything else. Some call ik education, others brain washing.

Usually, the only times I hear about the Holocaust is on this forum from wannabe nazis who all seem to believe that it didn't happen but the jews had it coming and the nazis had no choice and sooner or later someone will finish the job.