Holocaust deniers and usually an academic whose work will be misrepresented by Holocaust deniers. Oh and guess what that is exactly what has happened here, from the linked-to article:
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WWII Photo of Little Boy With Hands Raised Fraud
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Holocaust deniers and usually an academic whose work will be misrepresented by Holocaust deniers. Oh and guess what that is exactly what has happened here, from the linked-to article:
ponderingturtle
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Or is the question who are they wearing more appropraite?
ponderingturtle
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Training techniques on how to shoot a pistol vary and have changed over time.
Cainkane1
Philosopher
Even if this is a posed fake picture I'm sure those Jewish folks are doing it under duress. I believe the holocost happened because I have a choice to believe the Jews or some stinking low life Nazi sympathiser. I choose to believe the jews. I'm certain that theres more proof that it did happen than proof that it didn't. My father was an MP who saw at least one death camp.
ddt
Mafia Penguin
It's not only the Jews who claim the Holocaust happened. It's also that 100% of the scholars out there say it happened. The closest to a scholar the denier crowd has is David Irving, who in the beginning of his career had the semblance of a scholar. When he chose to sue Deborah Lipstadt and Penguin Books, he got his ass handed by the preponderance of evidence Lipstadt and Penguin brought. So let's not even get started about the rest of them, like Leuchter, Zündel, Weber, etc.
sleepy_lioness
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I'd never seen that photo before. It's certainly not "the most well-known document of the Holocaust". But now I have seen it it makes me sad.
HansMustermann
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Well, ok, my phrasing was ambiguous, so lemme rephrase it: who cares about such details, for the purpose of establishing whether the holocaust as a whole is true or false?
I mean, ok, historians... that's their job, after all. And other people are interested in history or details anyway.
But for the purpose of supporting holocaust denial... it seems to me stupid to point at a picture of a scared family with children being driven out of their home with their hands up, at gun point, and go, baiscally, "Yeah, it's genuine, but it happened three blocks away from where you thought! And it was from a soldier's scrapbook, not a general's! And why is the boy wearing that ugly outfit? So the holocaust didn't happen!"
I mean, geesh, talk about a Chewbacca defense...
Actually, yes, you would. Do you assume that that was somehow "sunday best" to be worn only for special occasions? It wasn't.
It's all they have.
"Holocaust denial" is simply an expression of the underlying adherence to the ideology of the Nazis. (Or rather the expressed ideology of Nazism, the "party line" was nothing but a smokescreen for the leaders to gain as much personal power as possible.)
ddt
Mafia Penguin
It depends on your perspective. In the Netherlands, I'd say, this photo is the most well-known one, of a gypsy girl on a train just before it leaves camp Westerbork.
Red3
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It doesn't make scrap of difference if this photo is fake or not. There are plenty of fake or staged photos from every war. How does this in any way nullify the bags of indisputable evidence surrounding the holocaust?
He doesn't even look like he's pointing the gun at the boy; it looks as though the gun's pointed at the ground. As though he's nonchalantly carrying out duties while listening to someone out of shot.
He doesn't even look like he's pointing the gun at the boy; it looks as though the gun's pointed at the ground. As though he's nonchalantly carrying out duties while listening to someone out of shot.
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ddt
Mafia Penguin
You have to understand the mindset of a denier. They think that if you somehow prove one tiny piece to be false, that the whole Holocaust magically disappears. Never mind that, e.g., Elie Wiesel, a popular target of them, isn't taken serious by any scholar. And never mind that their other "proofs" are false and only based on grave distortions.
Under the line, it always comes out that the tenet of a denier is: "The Holocaust never happened, but the Jews deserved it anyway".
ddt
Mafia Penguin
Yes, it was only in 1992 that the journalist, Wagenaar, searched for it and found her identity. The misidentification was quite logical. Around 100,000 Dutch Jews were sent to the death camps, and only a couple of thousands Roma and Sinti, so what are the odds?
Jewish Virtual Library has a good writeup too.
geni
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Since we don't actualy know who took it that doesn't mean much.
In any case the germans took a fairly large number of pics. Are you going to argue that all these pics are photos a general would chose:
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Deutsches_Bundesarchiv_pictures_by_Vack
As for it's use in a report in a report to himmler are you that worried about PR?
Aparently the author is not aware that higher quality copies exist:
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Stroop_Report_-_Warsaw_Ghetto_Uprising_06.jpg
In any case Photos of photos are quite a standard technique if you are in a hurry or have managed to lose the original negative.
Depends how you define force. Since point a gun and people and demanding they leave counts as force the caption doesn't create a problem.
Not it wasn't.
But then the author appears to think that there are only two coppies in existance. Not so. There is also a copy in the German Federal Archives. Quite a trick to get a fraudulent document created by the jewish resistance into those no?
HansMustermann
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Actually, while it's hard to interpolate a 3D line in a 2D photo, the way I follow the barrel of the SMG, it points roughly at the kid's knees.
But really it doesn't matter the exact angle. It matters that the guns are in their hands, ready for use, and pointed in the general direction of those people. It would take less than half a second to level that gun and let it rip. Even if those soldiers aren't expecting it to be probable to have to use those guns, it tells me (and probably those people with their hands up too) that they _are_ ready to use them. The implicit threat is there and actually very clear.
In effect, for the purpose of that threat, that gun could just as well be pointed at the kid's head. The threat is the exact same.
That's not a posture of, say, some soldiers helping evacuate some people from a front area, in which case the weapons would be on their back or some other non-threatening position.
But really it doesn't matter the exact angle. It matters that the guns are in their hands, ready for use, and pointed in the general direction of those people. It would take less than half a second to level that gun and let it rip. Even if those soldiers aren't expecting it to be probable to have to use those guns, it tells me (and probably those people with their hands up too) that they _are_ ready to use them. The implicit threat is there and actually very clear.
In effect, for the purpose of that threat, that gun could just as well be pointed at the kid's head. The threat is the exact same.
That's not a posture of, say, some soldiers helping evacuate some people from a front area, in which case the weapons would be on their back or some other non-threatening position.
1) Says who?
2)Says who?
3)Never read caption but there are known photos with inaccurate caption that still show real events
4)Says who?
As to the socks yes that's impossible, it's not like people actually dressed in that way at the time /sarcasm off
Ian Osborne
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DuckOnWarpath
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Err guys the excerpt in the parentheses comes directly from the essay, what I meant was that the safer way to avoid recoil is to actually shoot with both hands. Stances may differ, I was even taught the "rambo stance" in the army, however that doesn't make it the most accurate ever.