Merged [Ed] Convicted Lockerbie bomber released

Russell Brown, Labour MP for Dumfries, said seeing the Saltire at Tripoli airport was "stomach churning" and condemned the Scottish Government for failing to seek adequate assurances that the Lockerbie bomber would not be hailed a hero on his return to Libya.

He said: "I have never been ashamed to see my country's flag waved before, but to see it misused to celebrate mass murder is outrageous.

"This man is convicted of murdering 270 people in my part of Scotland and that conviction stands.

"This adds further pressure to the SNP to explain why they have freed a man who showed no remorse for the crimes he has committed."
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The SNP are a disgrace and should hang their heads in shame for dragging Scotlands reputation through the mud.:mad:
 
funk de fino said:
How about the UK govt and Good Friday releases?
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Logically speaking, the UK government doing something shameful wouldn't excuse the Scottish government from doing the same.

I am not saying either was shameful, however.
 
gtc said:
Logically speaking, the UK government doing something shameful wouldn't excuse the Scottish government from doing the same.

I am not saying either was shameful, however.
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I'm not attepmpting to say it excuses them. Just want his opinion on it compared to his opinion on the SNP actions.
 
How about the UK govt and Good Friday releases?
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And those two events are analagous how exactly?

I wasnt aware that we were negotiating over an ongoing terrorist campaign by Libya or that Colonel Gaddafi wanted to enter into power sharing in Northern Ireland?

There was zero reason to free this mass murderer other than to secure some oil deals with Libya.

I thought the left used to shout "No blood for oil" and actually meant it.

Apparently not.
 
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Rolfe said:
That wasn't him. If you look at the whole footage, the person punching the air was one of the guys who helped him down the steps just afterwards. I'm not quite certain, but I think it was someone who met the plane at Tripoli, who had not travelled on it.
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I understand that person was in fact Lamin Fhimah, Megrahi's co-accused who was acquitted at Camp Zeist. While I agree it looked bad, I can understand a bit of air-punching at that point.

Rolfe.
 
Rolfe said:
I understand that person was in fact Lamin Fhimah, Megrahi's co-accused who was acquitted at Camp Zeist. While I agree it looked bad, I can understand a bit of air-punching at that point.

Rolfe.
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Yeah the waving of the saltires was a very touching scene also.
 
Must be uncomfortable, being so filled with hate all the time. I recommend against it.

By the way, were you going to explain how it was that the Labour party weren't intending to send Megrahi back to Libya anyway? Feel free, 'cos I can't be arsed to dig up all the contemporary news articles about it.

Rolfe.
 
scissorhands said:
And those two events are analagous how exactly?
I wasnt aware that we were negotiating over an ongoing terrorist campaign by Libya or that Colonel Gaddafi wanted to enter into power sharing in Northern Ireland?

There was zero reason to free this mass murderer other than to secure some oil deals with Libya.

I thought the left used to shout "No blood for oil" and actually meant it.

Apparently not.
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Both govts released convicted terrorist killers early. These terrorists recieved heroes welcomes when they were freed. None of the Irish ones were dying of cancer though. Do you think the IRA killers or the Loyalist killers should have been released? Its a yes or no answer.

The reason he was released was that he was dying and the rules say he can be released like others before him. You think otherwise, then prove it.
 
lionking said:
Nope. He was punching the air as well.

What about the propaganda victory?
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What propaganda victory? We have released a dying man on compassionate grounds. This is the norm in the Scottish justice system not an exception.

As to being a succour to terrorism I can just imagine all those would be terrorists sitting there thinking, Yes! all I have to do is get a nasty terminal illness.

There has been the most appalling load of nonsense talked about this event. As to his return, a few hundred well wishers and friends hardly signifies a triumphalist ticker-tape parade. As to the subsequent politicking of Labour and Tory MPs and MSPs now the deed is over - it reeks of sad desperation. Notably those actually in office in Westminster are saying little..probably because they pushed for Megrahi's appeal to be dropped. I think it exceptionally unlikely that withdrawal of the appeal and the utilisation of the compassionate release element of the Scottish justice system are unconnected. I also think it exceptionally unlikely the US state department didn't know all about the arrangements all along.

I would still like to see a full enquiry though, as there is a lot that is unexplained regarding Lockerbie and I always thought an Iranian involvement seemed more probable, coming as it did so soon after flight 655.
 
Russell Brown, Labour MP for Dumfries, said seeing the Saltire at Tripoli airport was "stomach churning" and condemned the Scottish Government for failing to seek adequate assurances that the Lockerbie bomber would not be hailed a hero on his return to Libya.

He said: "I have never been ashamed to see my country's flag waved before, but to see it misused to celebrate mass murder is outrageous.

"This man is convicted of murdering 270 people in my part of Scotland and that conviction stands.

"This adds further pressure to the SNP to explain why they have freed a man who showed no remorse for the crimes he has committed."
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I find such party political posturing "stomach churning", particularly when Mr. Brown's own party was busy fixing up to get Megrahi returned to Libya in 2007, apparently related to a multi-million pound oil deal involving BP.

Rolfe.
 
This compassion rule seems ill conceived. I think your system already shows more than enough compassion by not having a death penalty. Compassion to the prisoner and his family is also a slap in the face to the victims. I'm speaking generally here and not to this specific case because I don't know enough about it. But like I said last night Wolf was grilling your justice secretary. I haven't really seen him go after someone that hard before.
 
scissorhands said:
Yeah the waving of the saltires was a very touching scene also.
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As a Scot I can't say I found that troublesome. I took it as an attempt at a friendly gesture rather than offensive one. It makes a change from seeing them set on fire. I find the posturing of some of the politicians far more stomach churning.

Edit: Ooops Rolfe got there before me.
 
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Policenaut said:
This compassion rule seems ill conceived. I think your system already shows more than enough compassion by not having a death penalty. Compassion to the prisoner and his family is also a slap in the face to the victims. I'm speaking generally here and not to this specific case because I don't know enough about it. But like I said last night Wolf was grilling your justice secretary. I haven't really seen him go after someone that hard before.
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Well we have it for a fair while. I can't recall it hitting the headlines before. I guess it is a clash of cultures thing.
 
funk de fino said:
Both govts released convicted terrorist killers early. These terrorists recieved heroes welcomes when they were freed. None of the Irish ones were dying of cancer though. Do you think the IRA killers or the Loyalist killers should have been released? Its a yes or no answer.
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Unpalatable but yes as it brought about a peace process.

What part of my second sentence did you not understand?
Here I will repeat it for you.

I wasnt aware that we were negotiating over an ongoing terrorist campaign by Libya or that Colonel Gaddafi wanted to enter into power sharing in Northern Ireland?
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Get it yet?

The reason he was released was that he was dying and the rules say he can be released like others before him. You think otherwise, then prove it.
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BS.
It was a decision motivated by oil deals and petty political posturing by the SNP.
What a disgrace to Scotland they are.
 
scissorhands said:
Unpalatable but yes as it brought about a peace process.

What part of my second sentence did you not understand?
Here I will repeat it for you.



Get it yet?



BS.
It was a decision motivated by oil deals and petty political posturing by the SNP.
What a disgrace to Scotland they are.
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What oil deals? BP are a UK company not a Scottish company. If there was an economic element then that came from the Foreign Office and Westminster not Holyrood.

Your avowed dislike of nationalists is colouring your perception of the broader picture.
 
Nogbad said:
What propaganda victory? We have released a dying man on compassionate grounds. This is the norm in the Scottish justice system not an exception.
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I watched the return quite carefully, and what I saw was someone who was allowed to mount the aircraft steps at Tripoli carrying on in a jubilant manner and punching the air, both before and after he actually greeted Megrahi. It turns out this person was Lamin Fhimah, Megrahi's friend, colleague and co-accused, who was acquitted of all charges relating to Lockerbie. [As an aside, logic really dictates that either both men were guilty or neither was. One of these verdicts has to be wrong. Why assume it can't be the Megrahi one?]

There were a fair number of other people on the tarmac, and I'd love to talk to one or two of them and ask why they were there. Many may simply have been Megrahi's family and friends - he apparently belongs to a very important tribe. But on the whole, I think GB was probably right.

Guybrush Threepwood said:
I imagine that most Libyans view him as a brave member of the Libyan security services who was wrongly convicted of a terrible crime in the country that bombed their capital for no clear reason, and without consequences in 1986. So why wouldn't they welcome him home?
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I really don't imagine that anyone there was cheering the man who blew up Pan Am Flight 103. They were cheering their compatriot who had been wrongly accused and unjustly convicted. And they were glad that the Scottish Government had done the right thing in view of his sad illness.

Rolfe.
 
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By the way, were you going to explain how it was that the Labour party weren't intending to send Megrahi back to Libya anyway? Feel free, 'cos I can't be arsed to dig up all the contemporary news articles about it.

Rolfe.
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No Rolfe, you brought the issue up then decided you werent willing to back up your assertions, dont expect me to do the work for you.
Thats not how things work around here.
 
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