Amway TV ad

[Rasmus]

>>>> I already explained. The Amway business, minus the tool scam, is too simple and low capital to need a business plan.

And this is why you will never ever convince anyone that it's anything more or anything else than one big scam.

My marketing plan covers plenty of a business plan elements to demonstrate money will be made.

And this is why nobody will ever think you'd understand the business well enough to explain it even if it wasn't a big scam. It is simply not enough to show that money will be made. (If that is even so. But to show that you'd need a business plan ....)

Using your reasoning, without drawing a map, how do you know if you will successfully walk across a street or not?

In order to run a worthwhile business you will have to cross the one road hundreds and hundreds of time. No matter how small the chance of failure may be, it will eventually turn into a significant factor.

 

[Tex2]

And this is why you will never ever convince anyone that it's anything more or anything else than one big scam. >>>> WRONG. I convinced numerous people into the business, but because of the tool scam, they got out. LOL

And this is why nobody will ever think you'd understand the business well enough to explain it even if it wasn't a big scam. It is simply not enough to show that money will be made. (If that is even so. But to show that you'd need a business plan ....) >>>> This makes no sense, given the above. LOL



In order to run a worthwhile business you will have to cross the one road hundreds and hundreds of time. No matter how small the chance of failure may be, it will eventually turn into a significant factor.

So the more times you cross a road, the more important it is to have a map? LOL

 

[Rasmus]

So the more times you cross a road, the more important it is to have a map? LOL

The more important it is to know as much about the road as possible. And yes, a map certainly is a part of that. You would want to know where traffic comes from, goes to, what situations in other areas might result in traffic changing on that bit of road, etc. pp. Most importantly, though, you would want to find out if there's somewhere else that is better suited to cross the road!

If you only plan on crossing the road once most of that wouldn't matter. Some of it might, but the risk would *probably* be acceptably low. But, yes, if you planned on crossing the road a hundred or a thousand times, the risk would add up, and decreasing it just a little might well be worth your while.

Again, without a business plan you will never know if what you are doing is worth your while. It doesn't matter if most people can pay for the risk out of their pocket: Most people would still not be happy to give up large chunks of their disposable income or otherwise available funds only to invest it in a bad business model.

 

[Tex2]

The more important it is to know as much about the road as possible. And yes, a map certainly is a part of that. You would want to know where traffic comes from, goes to, what situations in other areas might result in traffic changing on that bit of road, etc. pp. Most importantly, though, you would want to find out if there's somewhere else that is better suited to cross the road! >>>> I don't know if you know how ridiculous that sounds. Are you seriously saying people that cross a road every single day as they walk to work should have a map? I don't know ANYONE who does this, are YOU saying they are ALL wrong? LOL

If you only plan on crossing the road once most of that wouldn't matter. Some of it might, but the risk would *probably* be acceptably low. But, yes, if you planned on crossing the road a hundred or a thousand times, the risk would add up, and decreasing it just a little might well be worth your while. >>>> I am more likely to have a map when crossing a road a single time, because I may need to use it to navigate where I want to go. LOL

Again, without a business plan you will never know if what you are doing is worth your while. It doesn't matter if most people can pay for the risk out of their pocket: Most people would still not be happy to give up large chunks of their disposable income or otherwise available funds only to invest it in a bad business model.

You are making the mistake many others on this forum are making: THE AMWAY BUSINESS, MINUS THE TOOL SCAM, DOES NOT TAKE "...LARGE CHUNKS OF...DISPOSABLE INCOME...." PERIOD.

 

[Rasmus]

You are making the mistake many others on this forum are making: THE AMWAY BUSINESS, MINUS THE TOOL SCAM, DOES NOT TAKE "...LARGE CHUNKS OF...DISPOSABLE INCOME...." PERIOD.

How would you know that without a business plan?

It can only not cost a lot if the business is not taking off. As soon as it does you would expect to be moving more merchandise and that would require ongoing investment. A business plan would simply show you how much growth you need, how much you could reasonably expect, how much you could hope for and how much you could handle.

Oh, wait, don't tell me:

You don't need a business plan because it is absolutely clear that the business will never grow that much and that it will never need such considerations. It just needs people that give up bearably small chunks of their disposable income over as much time as possible.

 

[Tex2]

How would you know that without a business plan? >>>> For the same reason I can cross a street without a map. It's simple, and does not require a detailed financial analysis. LOL

It can only not cost a lot if the business is not taking off. >>>> It can only cost a lot more if you are being tool scammed or otherwise foolish. LOL

As soon as it does you would expect to be moving more merchandise and that would require ongoing investment. >>>> Really? What causes the increased ongoing investment? LOL

A business plan would simply show you how much growth you need, how much you could reasonably expect, how much you could hope for and how much you could handle. >>>> These are ALL items covered in the marketing plan and during ongoing training. LOL

Oh, wait, don't tell me: >>>> I can't seem to tell you anything. LOL

You don't need a business plan because it is absolutely clear that the business will never grow that much and that it will never need such considerations. >>>> I didn't say that, you did. The one who needs a map to cross a road he crosses every single day. LOL

It just needs people that give up bearably small chunks of their disposable income over as much time as possible.

There's a huge difference, both in amount and result, between putting some gas in your car and feeding the LCK tool scam. Big. Huge. Difference. LOL

 

[NewtonTrino]

Please stop the petty name calling.

So let me summarize. The business is so simple that it doesn't need a business plan? Yes you have no idea what the actual profits are for a typical one of these businesses at different sizes?

Come on Tex, get with the program. Can't you see that you are in over your head here? The reason Schebeler thought the business was "still good" and "could still be saved" when the tool scam was brought to his attention is because of the brain washing. It *is* possible to break free of it for at least some people. When was the last time you listened to one of these tapes/cd's or whatever? You should get rid of all that stuff and turn your energy to something else. I would hate to see you doing the same thing in 10 years.

 

[Almo]

You should get rid of all that stuff and turn your energy to something else. I would hate to see you doing the same thing in 10 years.

Agreed. You deserve better.

 

[cyborg]

You are making the mistake many others on this forum are making: THE AMWAY BUSINESS, MINUS THE TOOL SCAM, DOES NOT TAKE "...LARGE CHUNKS OF...DISPOSABLE INCOME...." PERIOD.

I believe I pointed that out earlier; the thing you cannot explain is why the business is still a worthwhile proposition if the money is all in the tool scam.

 

[Rasmus]

How would you know that without a business plan? >>>> For the same reason I can cross a street without a map. It's simple, and does not require a detailed financial analysis. LOL

Crossing a street is essentially *free*. Running a business is not. Your time spend on running a business is not free, either.

Crossing a street has a single, unique and immediate end-goal. Buisnesses, even small and simple ones, are lot more complicated and comlpex.

It can only not cost a lot if the business is not taking off. >>>> It can only cost a lot more if you are being tool scammed or otherwise foolish. LOL

I can only consider this a blatant lie. The cost of running a business will go up as the business grows.

As soon as it does you would expect to be moving more merchandise and that would require ongoing investment. >>>> Really? What causes the increased ongoing investment? LOL

Kindly stop playing stupid with me.

A business plan would simply show you how much growth you need, how much you could reasonably expect, how much you could hope for and how much you could handle. >>>> These are ALL items covered in the marketing plan and during ongoing training. LOL

So there is a plan, you just didn't know what it was cvalled and have been lying about it. No surprise there, really.

Oh, wait, don't tell me: >>>> I can't seem to tell you anything. LOL

Not as long as you stick to blatant lies and general clulessness, no.

You don't need a business plan because it is absolutely clear that the business will never grow that much and that it will never need such considerations. >>>> I didn't say that, you did. The one who needs a map to cross a road he crosses every single day. LOL

I explai8ned why such a map would indeed be useful, yes. It's rather telling that you still don't get it, though.

There's a huge differenence, both in amount and result, between putting some gas in your car and feeding the LCK tool scam. Big. Huge. Difference. LOL

I am not even talking about the tool scam.

Let us agree for the sake of the argument that the tool scam is a bad thing and should be done away with. (I'm not denying this, I am just not talking aobut it at all.) It simply doesn't follow that what remains is a worthwhile, profitable and promising business proposition. It only follows that it is a somewhat less unwise venture to invest in than with the tool scam.

Actually, if the business as such was as good as you claim it is, then for some people at least it should still be worthwhile even *with* the tool scam, right?

 

[Tex2]

Agreed. You deserve better.

Hundreds of thousands of current, let alone millions of former IBOs deserve better. You guys want me to just walk away and allow others to be scammed. No dice.

 

[Tex2]

I believe I pointed that out earlier; the thing you cannot explain is why the business is still a worthwhile proposition if the money is all in the tool scam.

I never said all the money is in the tool scam. You did. The reason I didn't say it is because it's not true.

 

[CynicalSkeptic]

I'm done arguing with you on this topic. If you want to discuss it on the telephone, let me know. If you don't, I suggest you quit while you're hopelessly behind. LOL

LOL, indeed.

 

[Tex2]

LOL, indeed.

Indeed. LOL

 

[CynicalSkeptic]

Hey Tex, in many ways, you agree with Scheibeler. He says the tools scam was the worst part.

The difference is he came to realize that DeVos and the corporation was complicit with the tools scam.

 

[ysabella]

Please stop the petty name calling.

I think this is actually a technique he's using, consciously or not.
As I mentioned in a previous post, I am a fan of Gavin de Becker's books, and tend to notice with disfavor when people are using manipulative con-men techniques (depending on the circumstances, of course). When I described several techniques that some Amway people used to try to recruit me, Tex2 dismissed them as still-wet neophytes, but here in this thread he's repeating and repeating some of the same techniques.

Discounting "No" - The much-discussed conference call. Someone says "No, I don't want to do a conference call." Tex2 always responds "Why are you so afraid of a simple phone call?" This just happened again with CynicalSkeptic.

Typecasting - Instead of flattering with positive typecasting, Tex2 is trying to bait with negative typecasting all through this thread. For example, right after CynicalSkeptic sarcastically said he was afraid of over-the-phone mind control, Tex2 responds "I figured you to be a fairly weak person, thanks for confirming it for me. LOL
In the future, I wouldn't recommend you ask me any other questions, you merely expose your own weakness. LOL"
This is supposed to make CynicalSkeptic want to defend himself, by continuing to engage in the discussion or, ironically, by showing how strong a person he is in Tex2's eyes by acquiescing to the phone call.

One of Gavin de Becker's examples is a guy (who looked to be just out of prison) trying to pick up a girl on a plane. He offers her a sip of his whiskey, and when she says no thanks, he said "You're probably too young - I guess you're not independent enough to do something your parents don't want you to do even when they're not around." She retorts "I'm 16!" and decides to have a sip. That's 'discounting no' and the negative form of 'typecasting' rolled into one example.

When a product/business is really good, there is no need to resort to this kind of tactic. Seeing these techniques again from another Amway person seems to indicate to me that this might be what they all engage in, which for me is a huge negative.

(P.S. OMG CynicalSkeptic you might be a WEAK PERSON! You'd better go to a Person Gym and strengthen your Personhood! )

 

[NewtonTrino]

If you are done discussing the topic then why are you still here?

You can call us clueless all day long but the simple fact is that you aren't able to provide us with even BASIC information about how this business works in the real world. I would really enjoy seeing some work in that area but it's apparent that's not happening.

 

[NewtonTrino]

I think this is actually a technique he's using, consciously or not.
As I mentioned in a previous post, I am a fan of Gavin de Becker's books, and tend to notice with disfavor when people are using manipulative con-men techniques (depending on the circumstances, of course). When I described several techniques that some Amway people used to try to recruit me, Tex2 dismissed them as still-wet neophytes, but here in this thread he's repeating and repeating some of the same techniques.

Discounting "No" - The much-discussed conference call. Someone says "No, I don't want to do a conference call." Tex2 always responds "Why are you so afraid of a simple phone call?" This just happened again with CynicalSkeptic.

Typecasting - Instead of flattering with positive typecasting, Tex2 is trying to bait with negative typecasting all through this thread. For example, right after CynicalSkeptic sarcastically said he was afraid of over-the-phone mind control, Tex2 responds "I figured you to be a fairly weak person, thanks for confirming it for me. LOL
In the future, I wouldn't recommend you ask me any other questions, you merely expose your own weakness. LOL"
This is supposed to make CynicalSkeptic want to defend himself, by continuing to engage in the discussion or, ironically, by showing how strong a person he is in Tex2's eyes by acquiescing to the phone call.

One of Gavin de Becker's examples is a guy (who looked to be just out of prison) trying to pick up a girl on a plane. He offers her a sip of his whiskey, and when she says no thanks, he said "You're probably too young - I guess you're not independent enough to do something your parents don't want you to do even when they're not around." She retorts "I'm 16!" and decides to have a sip. That's 'discounting no' and the negative form of 'typecasting' rolled into one example.

When a product/business is really good, there is no need to resort to this kind of tactic. Seeing these techniques again from another Amway person seems to indicate to me that this might be what they all engage in, which for me is a huge negative.

(P.S. OMG CynicalSkeptic you might be a WEAK PERSON! You'd better go to a Person Gym and strengthen your Personhood! )

Very astute. Many of these techniques are taught in the "tools" we keep talking about.

 

[beachnut]

Right, so there's this ad on TV for Amway/Quixtar.

They said how they helped over 3 million people run their own business, with revenue over $6 billion.

Wait... isn't that income of $2000 per person? Maybe they mean current revenue is $6 billion and 3 million people have previously been involved. That could mean 2 million have quit, but 1 million are still in. Wait... isn't that still only $6000 per person?

Either loads of people have quit, or the people on average don't really make much money. Both ways make it sound like not such a good deal.

Loads of people have quit and made money but spent more. You can write off those airplane trips to seminars as a business expense. How many years can you write-off a loss? Can I write off my computer?

The best thing about Amway is you can drink the kool-aid and unlike the people's temple you get to buy more from your up-line the next day. They have great jokes too.

Oops- forgot those plastic cases the vitamins come in so you can store your computer nick-knacks in. The vitamins cost 500 percent more than they should but gee the up-line needs those extra dollars to skim profits off the top in this pyramid of MLM feel good conference write off your trip super 3 years of tax write-off loses mistake. But those plastic cases are cool; bet they are worth more than the vitamins.

You can DIY feel good by reading motivational books for free at the library; Ben Franklin had a good idea, and Amway has over priced products to keep the up-line rich. There must be some balance in the world.

If you speak well and can find a few people not really paying attention during a transitional time in their lives, Amway is your key to using those great jokes and recruiting some cult members who don't have to commit suicide, just buy some overpriced stuff just like they can do at Macy's or any overpriced specialty store and make you money. Those tapes (are they CDs now) are what? tools?

 

[PlayingDeaf]

Amway is a crock. Just like any other MLM type business.

Bottom Line:
You are signing up to sell a variety of products.
You can recruit people to sell the same products and get a percentage of what they sell.
There's probably some overhead where Amway makes a ton of money from the majority that fail.

Amway runs on...
"I would rather earn 1% off a 100 people's efforts than 100% of my own efforts."
..which to me, is ********.