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Truthers...what is your best piece of evidence ?

It's always funny to me how ardently you guys will defend one of your own, but when twoofies say goofy stuff there's a monthly contest for it.

You're welcome to nominate anyone you like. It's for anything egregiously stupid related to conspiracy theories. The fact that every winner so far has been a conspiracy theorist is an output, not an input.

Dave
 
Secondly, there's a thread specifically for Tri to provide the info he claimed he would. I'll apologize when his outlandish story is verified. Until then I'll remain skeptical.

See what I mean? This goes beyond dishonesty, into mental incapacity; I think RedIbis is honestly unable to perceive that his "exposed as a fabrication" claim was an obvious and undeniable lie, and honestly believes the above is a refutation of his accusation of lying. I don't think he understands the difference between truth and lies.

Dave
 
Oh, and one other thing.

When Robertson says that the effects of an airliner impact were considered at the design stage and the belief was that the building would survive, in truther world he has now stated that the building was designed to withstand an airliner impact. When he says the possible collapse modes were studied at the design stage and the expected collapse mode was very similar to that observed on 9/11, however...

Dave
 
Oh, and one other thing.

When Robertson says that the effects of an airliner impact were considered at the design stage and the belief was that the building would survive, in truther world he has now stated that the building was designed to withstand an airliner impact. When he says the possible collapse modes were studied at the design stage and the expected collapse mode was very similar to that observed on 9/11, however...

Dave

Report From Ground Zero has an extended quote from Robertson about his though process and it's considerably more nuanced than any quote I've seen elsewhere. It refers to a New Yorker article that would probably be worth chasing down.

Here's a link to the Google Books pages.

Robertson on design for aircraft impact
http://snurl.com/j54gc [Report from Ground Zero, page 188]​
 
Report From Ground Zero has an extended quote from Robertson about his though process and it's considerably more nuanced than any quote I've seen elsewhere. It refers to a New Yorker article that would probably be worth chasing down.

Here's a link to the Google Books pages.

Robertson on design for aircraft impact
http://snurl.com/j54gc [Report from Ground Zero, page 188]​

Not only is there nothing to support the idea that the towers were designed to collapse in any particular way, the author admits that "partial collapses often happen in burning buildings" at the same time promoting the long debunked pancake theory.

Please quote specifically from that text where Robertson says that the bldg was designed to collapse in a particular way, as opposed to considering collapse scenarios and designing to prevent them.
 
Not only is there nothing to support the idea that the towers were designed to collapse in any particular way, the author admits that "partial collapses often happen in burning buildings" at the same time promoting the long debunked pancake theory.

Please quote specifically from that text where Robertson says that the bldg was designed to collapse in a particular way, as opposed to considering collapse scenarios and designing to prevent them.

It was a response to this substantive post, not your silly digression as to who said what about how the buildings were supposed to fall over. You clearly responded to my post without reading my content.

Originally Posted by Dave Rogers
Oh, and one other thing.

When Robertson says that the effects of an airliner impact were considered at the design stage and the belief was that the building would survive, in truther world he has now stated that the building was designed to withstand an airliner impact. When he says the possible collapse modes were studied at the design stage and the expected collapse mode was very similar to that observed on 9/11, however...

Dave
 
You might want to step right back out because that's not what Beachnut said.

Read it slowly...

"Was the building built to fall in this way? (oops, yes is the answer[...]"

Is anyone going to question Beachnut on his claim that he asked Robertson or do debunkers take a vacation when it's one of their own who come out with a whopper without any support?
Do you get everything wrong? Robertson said that is the way they collapse. Go ask him. Tut tut it is raining on your failed delusions...

I missed BigAl/Dave Rodgers posted what Robertson said. Robertson also said Jones' ideas are nonsense.


The airliner impact studied for the WTC to survive was at 180 mph producing 187 pounds of TNT kinetic energy impact. This would leave most the fuel outside the building, not injected into the center.

You must study Robertson and the WTC design to understand what is true and what a bunch of nut case conspiracy theorist have made up due to willful ignorance.
“the collapse mechanism of the trade center, is as we anticipated it would be, when we first designed it” StevenJones_LeslieRobertson_20061026.mp3
The gravity collapse confirmed by the chief structural engineer makes your entire group of engineer and architect conspiracy theorists failed dolts on 911 issues.

What would he say about your delusions on 911? Have you asked him?
"he says all the insane ideas you can't express properly or with evidence are nonsense"
or was it "Preposterous"; take your pick; add "irresponsible"...
Write down your nonsense you can't express properly or with evidence and let me ask him. Need a hint on what he will say? What are your delusions on 911? You only argue semantics, never substance to do with 911. You are a straphanger of 911 conspiracy theories upset you have zero evidence and are not an engineer who meets other engineers; or what? I bet it is a lot of or what.
 
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You can yell and scream and bold all the font you want, but Beachnut did not say designed against collapse, or designed to fall in such and such a way. He said "built" to fall in this way. He's saying it was built to fall in a particular way.

Have you REALLY stooped to splitting hairs between the meanings of "built" and "designed"?

Truthfully?

I mean, with all the treason and mass murder the truthers believe the government is guilty of, this is what you choose to focus on?

Really?
 
Please quote specifically from that text where Robertson says that the bldg was designed to collapse in a particular way, as opposed to considering collapse scenarios and designing to prevent them.

What I hate is when a car's wheels fall off at high speed, and the car keeps sliding forward instead of stopping (or better yet, pulling over to the side of the road). Why do they design it that way?
 
You can yell and scream and bold all the font you want, but Beachnut did not say designed against collapse, or designed to fall in such and such a way. He said "built" to fall in this way. He's saying it was built to fall in a particular way.

This is 100% incorrect and he has provided zero support for such a contention, and it's ridiculous to watch the debunkers run to his aid to defend this nonsense.

Is anyone going to ask Beach for some proof he talked to Robertson?

That is a massive non-sequitor... So the difference is he used the word "built" instead of "designed" in his sentences? What's the difference between the two in the context the words were used?

BUMP for red....

also.... with reference to the stundie nomination:
As you are aware the context is there for everybody to see. Of course you also tried to subtley (and unsuccessfully) to change your argument. You're free to clarify what you meant within the thread in question, I did ask about it of course you might have forgotten about it in the barrage of responses that followed it.

Of course the two posts referenced deal with the change from this:
Thank you for proving Beachnut absolutely wrong when he said,

"Was the building built to fall in this way? (oops, yes is the answer[...]"

Oops, no is the answer. Buildings are not designed to collapse. Engineers consider collapse scenarios and then design against it.

Is Beachnut lying? Was he lying when he claimed he asked Robertson?

to this:
You can yell and scream and bold all the font you want, but Beachnut did not say designed against collapse, or designed to fall in such and such a way. He said "built" to fall in this way. He's saying it was built to fall in a particular way.

This is 100% incorrect and he has provided zero support for such a contention, and it's ridiculous to watch the debunkers run to his aid to defend this nonsense.

Is anyone going to ask Beach for some proof he talked to Robertson?
 
Not only is there nothing to support the idea that the towers were designed to collapse in any particular way, the author admits that "partial collapses often happen in burning buildings" at the same time promoting the long debunked pancake theory.
Please quote specifically from that text where Robertson says that the bldg was designed to collapse in a particular way, as opposed to considering collapse scenarios and designing to prevent them.

Um, you're correct that sometimes local collapses happen in burning buildings. This is pretty common. Like when roof trusses fail in a house fire, the roof collapses. This is deadly in a fire. Sometimes, in high-rise structures, 1 floor section will collapse. This is not all that uncommon. For you to assume that this is exactly what should have happened on 9/11 is assinine. Its a flawed logic. It wasn't just the floors that were damaged. IT WAS MANY FLOORS AND MAIN SUPPORT COLUMNS THAT FAILED!! Der.


I love it when truthers think they understand fire, when in fact, they only understand that it is hot, and sometimes it take 45 burns of the hands to figure it out. Then it takes them another 45 times getting burned to figure out not to touch it anymore.
 
Oh, and here is a FANTASTIC link!! Watch at about 1:20 the whole front collapses.....Gee, I wonder why......

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lxei17qB5Q8&feature=PlayList&p=C4160C7D11706678&index=2

Oh, and about 3:00 also, another part collapses.....

NYC's authorized store for t-shirts and other FDNY/NYPD-logo stuff has a bunch of FDNY videos that have never made it to the Internets. (I looked.) Some of them are 9/11-related and the store has more than are shown on the web site.

http://www.nyfirestore.com/visit.html

http://www.nyfirestore.com/videos.html

Several of those I saw had the stevespak logo on them.
 
Let's just deal with this for now. Are you actually saying that you asked the chief structural engineer for the WTC, and he told you that the bldg was designed to "fall in this way?"

Are you actually saying the bldg was built to collapse? Secondly, are you actually claiming that you personally showed him my ideas and that he addressed them specifically?

Do you have support for these outrageous claims or because you hold the prevailing view here you don't expect to be pressed on this idiocy?

You might want to step right back out because that's not what Beachnut said.

Read it slowly...

"Was the building built to fall in this way? (oops, yes is the answer[...]"

Is anyone going to question Beachnut on his claim that he asked Robertson or do debunkers take a vacation when it's one of their own who come out with a whopper without any support?

I missed this before. You know damn well what he meant, liar.

It's like you're pretending to be a moron just to get some lame jollies with pedantic idiocy. Truly despicable.
 
demolition proven outright by basic physics

OK, time to prove and I mean PROVE 911 was demolition and an inside job.

Fire weakening steel: Kerosine fires in real world conditions or dirty burns such as 911 produce temperatures not exceeding 700F, no way near enough to weaken structural steel designed to resist 5 times their weight, especially when combined with the fact that steel has a high thermal conductivity and would draw heat away rapidly. Also the fact that the aluminium cladding was not even deformed proves the fires were not hot enough.

Speed of collapse: The collapses themselves violate the law of conservation of momentum. There is no way that all the solid structural steel columns and supports, especially all the ones below the impacts unaffected by fire would offer no resistance to produce near freefall speed without demolition. The official pancaking story has been abandoned as it obviously attempts to treat the collapse as a floor by floor scenario when the load bearing distribution obviously involves the entire frame. The steel structures are built to withstand 5 times the load above them, the minimal kinetic energy acquired by a floor failing(of which there is no logical reason anyway) would not come close to approaching the load bearing limit. Any impact tremors from collapse are distributed throughout the frame and would be inconsequential.

The negation of the toppling effect: Localised damage caused by a plane impact would lead to a structural inequality, thus the top section would topple like a tree falling toward the cut, this is observed to begin happening in the south tower collapse. However, as it is the gravitational force or downward pressure from the toppling upper section enabling it to topple, it’s uneven base acting as a pivot / fulcrum against the lower section, then the more the top section forces against the lower section, the more the toppling would continue and it would fall off to the side. But the top of the lower section explodes away downward, the pivot/fulcrum pressure is released and the top section ceases toppling and falls straight down proving that gravitational pressure of the top mass did not cause the collapse.

Symmetric collapse: symmetric, even collapse is IMPOSSIBLE without demolition as all structural supports must be removed simultaneously across each floor, this is impossible in a natural collapse as even a slight integrity inequality ALWAYS leads to a messy uneven and in most cases partial collapse.

These facts are IRREFUTABLE! Why is there a debate??!!!
Oh I know why, there are a lot of government-paid bloggers here with the fallacious official story facts sheet in front of them.
Now lets' see if any of you can refute the proof without resorting to hurling abuse, calling me a conspiracy theorist thinking that constitutes an argument, or illogically appealing to the memories of the dead.
 
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Oh I know why, there are a lot of government-paid bloggers here with the fallacious official story facts sheet in front of them.
.

You expect to not get abused after saying something as insanely stupid as this ? You dont really believe this do you ? Let's start there so we can figure out if you are even sane enough to discuss your "facts" with.
 
It collapses because it's an old piece of **** building, not a modern solid steel structured one. Only a bit of it collapses, not a complete symmetric collapse, GEE I WONDER WHY?........
 
OK, time to prove and I mean PROVE 911 was demolition and an inside job.

Fire weakening steel: Kerosine fires in real world conditions or dirty burns such as 911 produce temperatures not exceeding 700F, no way near enough to weaken structural steel designed to resist 5 times their weight, especially when combined with the fact that steel has a high thermal conductivity and would draw heat away rapidly. Also the fact that the aluminium cladding was not even deformed proves the fires were not hot enough.

Ok, just the first one then. It was not kerosine fires that kept the fires going. They started it, the office contents did the rest. Fires in offices and building regularly reach temps of around 1100 deg C.

This steel framed building was destroyed by a normal office/household contents fire which was fought by the firefighters.



Most of the aluminium cladding was on the outside and fell off in the collapse. The temperature on the external surface of the towers would have been less than the temps inside where the raging inferno was.
 

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