UFO Hoaxing 101

[King of the Americas]

You've hit the nail upon the head. Why was it a "false positive"? It was a bunch of lights in the sky. Surely to a serious researcher those shouldn't be noteworthy at all, since there are lights in the sky all the time.

To believe that a bunch of lights in the sky that may have been anything is a "positive" is like a doctor believing he's found a miracle cure for cancer every single time someone's tumour goes into remission.

If I didn't misunderstand you and you placed special significance on these lights, then I regret to inform you that the fault lies with you for attributing random lights in the sky a significance they did not deserve.

I understand your pain, but I still don't think you understand the purpose of this hoax.

The two aren't mutually exclusive. You'll notice no one, to my knowledge at least, has tried to hoax SETI yet. Why not? Because SETI is a serious agency, while all too many UFO believers are anything but critical about what they see in the sky.

I understand the intended 'purpose' behind these hoaxes.

What I'd like for these hoaxers and their cheerleaders to understand, is that there is an unintended result of these acts-"investigational interference"...

...and a sincere waste of valuable time, energy, and resources.

$250...

2-5 months in jail would have been more reasonable.

You should be deprived of freedom, for attempting to deprive someone of knowledge through outright deception.

Willfully impeding a scientific investigation should carry a sister penalty to that of impeding a criminal investigation.

 

[King of the Americas]

No.

I love it when people stand up and 'own' their ignorance.

Good on you "imjohn"!

 

[King of the Americas]

.
Read the sad story of the N-Ray.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/N_ray
.
The UFO "hoaxers" provide the same service as Professor Wood did, by showing the "experts" in the field can't distinguish fact from their sincerely believed fictions.
Cerealogists, ghost hunters, any of the psychic fields are fair game for demonstrating the poverty of evidence for the phenomena and lack of genuine expertise by any of the claimants of such expertise.
That such demonstrations of poverty in the fields disturbs you should wake you up to your biases.

There is a difference between Professor Wood, and these hoaxers.

Professor Wood was attempting to debunk a claim, by altering the experiment's elements, in an attempt 'show' a bias...

These hoaxers are attempting to 'cloud' the field, by presenting false positives, in effect "preventing" actual discoveries from occurring- clearly 'showing' a bias...

 

[I Ratant]

Way over your head!
The hoaxers demonstrate there are NO "actual discoveries', when purposeful hoaxes are swallowed whole by the true believer, until the actual situation is revealed.
Any "actual discoveries" will stand out on their own merits.

 

[King of the Americas]

Way over your head!
The hoaxers demonstrate there are NO "actual discoveries', when purposeful hoaxes are swallowed whole by the true believer, until the actual situation is revealed.
Any "actual discoveries" will stand out on their own merits.

There can be NO discoveries made, when the research time is consumed, chasing hoax induced false positives...

 

[Safe-Keeper]

* Safe-Keeper, meanwhile, is fascinated by the subject, and anxiously awaits UFO Hoaxing 102...

 

[Ignatowski]

We're in danger of their ire only if those people eventually move out of their mothers' basements and take up arms against us.

Awesome

 

[I Ratant]

Not to worry.
They'll be expecting the tasers they've made from their cameras to be sufficient weaponry as they dominate the world.
After all, it works in the games.

 

[Safe-Keeper]

They'll be expecting the tasers they've made from their cameras to be sufficient weaponry as they dominate the world.
After all, it works in the games.

In the Pirkinning flashback.

Thug: look where you're going, *******!
Pirk (pulls out personal sidearm, royally upset): keep away or I'll shoot!
Thug: look, a super soaker!
Pirk: it's a hand twinkler, you dumb***! And I got some whoop*** for you!
Thug (as Pirk keeps pulling trigger and shaking weapon to no avail): you gonna get your *** whooped!
Pirk: the batteries are shot! Aaah, Thursday, noo!
:violence:

 

[SezMe]

This may have been their intended purpose... But the actual result was to create a false positive within a sincere scientific study. When there is a scientific investigation taking place, if 'you' aren't a researcher, you should stay clear of the field.

What scientific study? You keep going on about science when there is none involved here. The two hoaxers did not claim to be doing science. There is no genuine "scientific" study of UFOs going on anywhere. The whole premise of your argument is wrong and thus your conclusions are....wrong.

 

[Fnord]

Indeed, my search for truth IS an obsession, something I DO feel 'compelled' to pursue.

And I DO hold that those who would attempt to hinder or otherwise interfere with these efforts, to be an enemy of science.

"Interfering with an ongoing investigation" is CRIMINAL.

Wait a sec...



Whew! You were saying? Oh, yeah...

Interfering with an ongoing criminal investigation is a criminal act, but interfering with the investigations of obessive-compulsive conspiracy nuts is just plain fun!

 

[makaya325]

There is no genuine "scientific" study of UFOs going on anywhere.

Due to lack of funding

 

[SezMe]

Due to lack of funding

I swear, makaya, I'm going to fund a study to determine why you can't use the Quote button properly.

 

[Stray Cat]

Do you consider "Ufology" to be a sincere scientific study/pursuit, that deserves to have it's observations/tests remain free of outside interference?

Do you consider that the Moonies (insert least favourite dangerous cult) are a sincere religious group that deserves to have it's misconceived ideals remain free of outside interference?

Or are these hoaxers doing good work, in attempting to insert these false positives?

If the 'experts' were doing their job as well as they claim to be able to do it, the false positive wouldn't be an issue. The hoax would have failed because the 'experts' would have identified the balloon flares or at least not immediately jumped to their premature conclusions.

So the only despicable hoaxes are those like Ray Santilli's Alien Autopsy hoax or the many other hoaxes actively promoted as genuine events by reseachers like Jamie Maussan, Sean David Morton, Billy Meier et al which which are done to really muddy the water and hoodwink people out of money...

 

[Foolmewunz]

KotA's....

C'mon comrades! Let's stake out the moral high ground.



I mean... uh, I mean.....

Seriously, dude! Were you beaten as a child by a step-parent who was hoaxed into doing so, or something? As was pointed out our own James Randi perpetrated a hoax, himself. (You'll have to stretch to call it a practical joke - it was a hoax.)

Most of us applauded the hoax because it does just what these buffoons did - it shows how willing people are to believe in nonsense when presented with a story that suits their personal agenda.

You're just totally over-reacting. Where is all this moral outrage for the millions upon millions of dollars the US Government has spent tracking down decades worth of these ridiculous confabulations, quite a few of which are embroidered out of the whole cloth of imagination?

Meh - I'm for it. Anything that can be done to show people that they are using bias in their thinking is fine by me. Yeah, even if it fools me (once)....

 

[DogB]

This may have been their intended purpose... But the actual result was to create a false positive within a sincere scientific study.

As has been said before - you've hit the nail on the head here.

Any 'sincere scientific study' should automatically assume false positive unless categorically ruled out. That's called the scientific method.

When there is a scientific investigation taking place,

Clearly that's not what is taking place and this hoax proves it.

if 'you' aren't a researcher, you should stay clear of the field.

Terribly sorry. Show me your degree in ufology and I'll step back.

 

[HeyLeroy]

Science at its core, is the search for Truth.

Correct...

To create a lie, and then put effort into garnering attention to it, in an attempt to get people to believe in it, is an affront to Science itself, and a waste of investigative resources.

Please show evidence that UFOlogists are engaging in anything approaching 'real' science.

To take part in such endeavors and or applaud those who do, is the kind of behavior that people should be burned at the stake for...

I applaud them. What are you suggesting?

Hoaxing U.F.O. investigators is fun and funny to skeptics.

Correct...

But how funny would it be to fake someone's grandmother's violent rape and murder, all in the name of being skeptical, or building skepticism for police investigations? Would it be acceptable to fake photos of a bloody mangled corpse?

It's not 'real'...no body got hurt, all that happened was a few dumb believers got dooped...

They had it coming. They should be more skeptical of police reports.

Umm... huh?!? I don't understand the correlation between demonstrating the lack of due diligence amongst a few self-proclaimed UFO experts and... whatever it is you're suggesting there.

Lies 'hurt'. They are an obstacle to Science, and those who seek to further lies should be shunned, if not punished severely.

Justifying the wasting of someone's investigative resources, seems to me the pinnacle ignorance.

Have you asked these UFOlogists if they've come away with anything from this experience?

How do you know that they haven't learned something about their methods; possibly something that would actually, y'know, improve their ways of doing what they call science?

Making jokes 'about' things is fine.

Perpetrating jokes/hoaxes 'upon' people that cause them to waste time and resources is WRONG.

Nobody forced those UFOlogists to expend any time or resources upon this.

Awesome

Any thread that causes a three-year member to make his third post has gotta be good for something.

 

[Yoink]

If "ufologists" were actually scientists they would welcome hoaxes like this as a way of testing their methods and a reminder to be very, very suspicious of eyewitness testimony.

A hoax of this kind (one in which the hoaxers reveal their methods after perpetrating the hoax) is not a "false positive" because by revealing what they did the hoaxers have shown this to be a "negative." Everybody knows, now, that this wasn't a case of an alien space craft visiting earth. Any "ufologist" worth their salt should be keen to study the testimony arising from this case to learn about the ways in which stories of UFO sightings become distorted and embellished over time.

Unless, of course, what you're saying is that Ufologists don't actually care about the truth--they just want to rack up as many spurious "confirmed sightings" as possible.

 

[Stray Cat]

Any "ufologist" worth their salt should be keen to study the testimony arising from this case to learn about the ways in which stories of UFO sightings become distorted and embellished over time.

Sadly, history shows this will not happen.

Unless, of course, what you're saying is that Ufologists don't actually care about the truth--they just want to rack up as many spurious "confirmed sightings" as possible.

Sadly, history shows this happens all the time.

 

[Whiplash]

I just can't see how this can be constructive, ever. Ok, so the experts are being shown to be fools. That's great. But how many people saw these things, think they were UFO's, and never followed up any further than that? It just ends up being more proof for their own delusions. It's not like every single one of them will find out it was a hoax, and be fully educated about the whole thing. In the end, it will actually strengthen the beliefs of some.

My pragmatic side is kicking in here. Even though a greater good may be done, I think it does enough harm as well that it's not constructive.