Truthers...what is your best piece of evidence ?

[Arus808]

sorry red, but my aunt and uncle were there on that day; they saw both planes hit the WTC towers. They were evacuated to a safe area only a few blocks away. THey heard nothing like explosives nor SUCCESSION of explosions (which would be consistent with a CD).

Anyone who calls my aunt and uncles liars by insinuating they didn't see or HEAR what they did that day, are lesser than pond scum

 

[TruthersLie]

My bold. No it doesn't. No one eyewitness would be able to report on every feature of a CD. You said yourself that you weren't interested in analysis after the fact or whether they were right or wrong. The challenge was to find reports consistent with CD.

Here we go.

Now watch it.

pay attention to what it sounds like. Notice the distance between the cameras and the buildings.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=2873871255585611926#1m10s

I know this has been pointed out to you... but you will just ignore it. just like a lying twoof.

 

[Ragnarok]

For that reason, it is on record that FDNY cleared personnel out of the area, and announced that the building was likely to collapse. This is foreknowledge based on their correct professional observations made on scene.

And nothing to do with the fact they had just seen two of the biggest buildings in America collapse already. If that hadn't happened and a bomb had caused the structural damage and fires in WTC7, I'm sure the FDNY would have had no qualms about continuing to battle the blaze with whatever resources they had, and would never have expected the building to collapse in a lifetime.

 

[Ragnarok]

(By the way, there are two good seismic records of WTC from two different companies. They match. Neither shows anything that is evidence for man-made demolition.)

They barely registered the planes explosions; why would they pick up smaller explosions within the towers?

 

[funk de fino]

And nothing to do with the fact they had just seen two of the biggest buildings in America collapse already. If that hadn't happened and a bomb had caused the structural damage and fires in WTC7, I'm sure the FDNY would have had no qualms about continuing to battle the blaze with whatever resources they had, and would never have expected the building to collapse in a lifetime.

An engineer from WTC7 also stated that the building was going to collapse due to the fires.

 

[Ragnarok]

An engineer from WTC7 also stated that the building was going to collapse due to the fires.

Based on what previous experience and specialist knowledge?

Are you implying he was able to look at the blueprints and say "Hey, if that goes, the lot is coming down!"?

 

[funk de fino]

Based on what previous experience and specialist knowledge?

You do know they also had specialists in to check the building because they thought it was going to collapse?

What is your speciality to claim what you did?

And nothing to do with the fact they had just seen two of the biggest buildings in America collapse already. If that hadn't happened and a bomb had caused the structural damage and fires in WTC7, I'm sure the FDNY would have had no qualms about continuing to battle the blaze with whatever resources they had, and would never have expected the building to collapse in a lifetime.

Here, why dont you read about him yourself. He was in the building, he saw the fires.

http://media.nara.gov/9-11/MFR/t-0148-911MFR-00136.pdf

 

[Dave Rogers]

If that hadn't happened and a bomb had caused the structural damage and fires in WTC7, I'm sure the FDNY would have had no qualms about continuing to battle the blaze with whatever resources they had, and would never have expected the building to collapse in a lifetime.

Note that "the resources they had" to battle the blaze didn't, in the event, include a water supply.

What's the basis for your certainty that they would have continued to fight the fire regardless of structural damage, and not evacuated the building for fear of collapse as the Philadelphia firefighters did at One Meridian Plaza?

Dave

 

[Ragnarok]

Mike said there were 12,000 gallons of fuel underground for SSB. 15,000 for the City and another 10,000 for SEC and FBI as well as another 10,000 for Silverstein.

How come we never heard any of this explode? And if it didn't, what relevance does it have?

 

[Ragnarok]

Note that "the resources they had" to battle the blaze didn't, in the event, include a water supply.

What's the basis for your certainty that they would have continued to fight the fire regardless of structural damage, and not evacuated the building for fear of collapse as the Philadelphia firefighters did at One Meridian Plaza?

Dave

Well, the fact it was one of the most important buildings in the US, you'd expect every effort to save its contents, if not its structure. Is the amount of data saved or recovered of no interest to anybody, regardless of it's relevance on the events of the day?

For instance, was all the data held on computers transferred to a safer environment after the 2nd plane hit?

ps. Who was in WTC7 when the attacks took place, and who oversaw everyone leaving the building?

 

[funk de fino]

How come we never heard any of this explode? And if it didn't, what relevance does it have?

Who said it should have exploded? He was giving answers in an interview. Is that your only comment on his testimony?

An engineer from WTC7 says the building was going to collapse from the fire and you just bring a strawman?

 

[funk de fino]

Well, the fact it was one of the most important buildings in the US, you'd expect every effort to save its contents, if not its structure. Is the amount of data saved or recovered of no interest to anybody, regardless of it's relevance on the events of the day?

For instance, was all the data held on computers transferred to a safer environment after the 2nd plane hit?

ps. Who was in WTC7 when the attacks took place, and who oversaw everyone leaving the building?

Rubbish, most people prior to 911 had never heard of it. I had been to NY 2 months before and went up the towers and did not even know anything about WTC7. Even the BBC called it the Solomon Brothers building. If they did not have water how could they fight the fire?

Data and lives, hmmmmmm what is most important?

You could contact Mike from the previous link about the evacuation as he was security for the building and also another security guy is mentioned by name.

I know you won't though eh?

 

[Dave Rogers]

Well, the fact it was one of the most important buildings in the US, you'd expect every effort to save its contents, if not its structure. Is the amount of data saved or recovered of no interest to anybody, regardless of it's relevance on the events of the day?

I think you are asking far too much of the FDNY if you think that they should go into a burning and structurally damaged building with no water supply to fight the fires, even locally for self-preservation, simply to recover data. How many lives do you think the data in WTC7 was worth? One? Ten? A hundred? Because that would be the tradeoff. There was nobody inside, and no way to fight the fires. How many file servers or filing cabinets worth of data were there in this 47-storey building? How would the FDNY know what needed saving and what didn't?

Really, asking firemen to go into a building this large, without water, to blunder about at random trying to rescue bits of paper and disc drives, when what they find is more likely to be irrelevant rubbish, is quite, quite insane.

"Mom, tell me how Daddy died again."

"He was a real hero, son. He tried to save the SEC paperwork when everybody else had given up. They found his body in the wreckage, clutching a report on the excessive use of paperclips."

"(sniff) I'll never use a paperclip again unless I have to."

"Good boy. That's how Daddy would have wanted it."

And, of course, any relevant data that had been rescued would now be cited as evidence of foreknowledge; how did the FDNY know exactly where to look for the files that the conspirators wanted to recover?

Risking firemen's lives to save data files from a burning building. Pathetic.

Dave

 

[BigAl]

Well, the fact it was one of the most important buildings in the US, you'd expect every effort to save its contents,
if not its structure. Is the amount of data saved or recovered of no interest to anybody, regardless of it's relevance on the events of the day? For instance, was all the data held on computers transferred to a safer environment after the 2nd plane hit?

Who cares outside the companies and their insurance companies, and customers, employees, and stockholders? In many cases, the information is very private.

What you describe is called Business Continuity Planning. It's the job of each of the companies in the building to do it for themselves. BCP consists largely in identifying the stuff which, if lost, would prevent the company from staying in business and no outsider can do it for someone else. The day of the disaster is too late to do backups of business-critical data. I've done BCP (as part of a team) for one of the biggest banks in the world and other companies.

This is yet another example of how the children of the Truth Movement are utterly devoid of knowledge about how the world really works.

ps. Who was in WTC7 when the attacks took place, and who oversaw everyone leaving the building?

I assume floor fire wardens under the direction of FDNY, just like in any fire drill. Big buildings run fire drills on a regular basis.

 

[BigAl]

They barely registered the planes explosions; why would they pick up smaller explosions within the towers?

But they did register. One of the firms was local to Manhattan and working downtown. They were there to monitor a genuine man-made demolition for insurance claims if anyone in the neighborhood claimed damages.

Small explosions don't knock down big buildings.

 

[BigAl]

never mind

 

[aggle-rithm]

For instance, was all the data held on computers transferred to a safer environment after the 2nd plane hit?

Ummm...most organizations with computer systems do this on a regular basis. They did before 9/11, and they continue to do it today. It's not wise to trust the future of the entire organization on the assumption that disaster will never strike the building that holds the data.

 

[BigAl]

And nothing to do with the fact they had just seen two of the biggest buildings in America collapse already. If that hadn't happened and a bomb had caused the structural damage and fires in WTC7, I'm sure the FDNY would have had no qualms about continuing to battle the blaze with whatever resources they had, and would never have expected the building to collapse in a lifetime.

Firemen know that steel structures can collapse and do so on a regular basis.

There was no water to fight the fire.

Believe it or not, grasshopper, the collapse of WTC7 without loss of life was the good news on what had been a horrible day. Everyone in Manhattan that had a TV on knew the collapse was coming and that everyone had been evacuated.

 

[Justin39640]

Firemen know that steel structures can collapse and do so on a regular basis.

There was no water to fight the fire.

Believe it or not, grasshopper, the collapse of WTC7 without loss of life was the good news on what had been a horrible day. Everyone in Manhattan that had a TV on knew the collapse was coming and that everyone had been evacuated.

he fails to realize that firefighting is about saving lives not saving structures
and if a structure is evacuated and in danger of collapse
fire departments will opt for self preservation and set up a collapse zone
just like WTC7 (cause risking lives for an empty building is pretty stupid)

 

[Ragnarok]

But they did register. One of the firms was local to Manhattan and working downtown. They were there to monitor a genuine man-made demolition for insurance claims if anyone in the neighborhood claimed damages.

Small explosions don't knock down big buildings.

Neither do large explosions, apparently. Fires seem to do a good enough job on their own.