VFF Preliminary Kidney Detection Test

[VisionFromFeeling]

This is why I stopped trying to help you. Instead of taking my simple protocol and improving it with the help of the knowledgable people here, you have butchered it to the point where it is virtually useless.

Here's how I've "butchered" your protocol. Why is it so bad?

1. The volunteers all wear football jerseys or similiar with a different number on the back have a number from 1 to 10 written on their arm with a permanent marker. That way they can not change their number. The volunteers and VFF are monitored and filmed. from the moment they put them on until the end of the test to ensure they have no opportunity to swap shirts.

2. VfF enters a screened off section of the room and sits facing a curtain, on the other side of which is a stool.

3. The first volunteer sits on the stool with their back to the curtain. When he/she is settled, the curtain is drawn back. Other curtains that are not drawn back, conceal the head and neck, arms and body below pelvis (including legs) of the volunteer so that only the necessary back area can be seen. VfF should not be able to see anything except the stool and its occupant from where she is sitting. The volunteer sits as still as he/she can manage whilst VfF examines him/her. There is no speaking or interaction such as touching during the test. VfF indicates when she has seen enough and the curtain is drawn. VFF has 15 minutes to see each volunteer and can choose to finish seeing a volunteer earlier than that if she is ready. The volunteer then returns to the waiting area and the next volunteer takes their place. Because the total length of the test is a couple of hours, volunteers may arrive when it is closer to their time to be seen and may leave after being seen. That way the volunteers don't have to wait for several hours. If one volunteer is asked to have an ultrasound, they have agreed before-hand that they are willing and that will be arranged on a later day.

4. Repeat for each volunteer. VfF is free to make whatever notes she wishes about the volunteers.

5. When all volunteers have been examined VfF decides which one she thinks has only one kidney and writes the appropriate number on a card which she seals inside an envelope. She then joins the volunteers, adjudicator and observers and places the envelope on a table in clear view.

6. The adjudicator calls for the volunteer with only one kidney to step forward. He/she produces the previously agreed documentary evidence which is examined by VfF and the adjudicator. When both are satisfied the volunteer turns around to show the number on his/her back. The adjudicator then opens VfF's envelope to see if the number she has written is the same.

Repeat as many times as necessary to beat the previously agreed odds of chance success. Three 1 in 10 trials for a 1 in 1,000 odds, or four 1 in 10 trials for a 1 in 10,000 odds, depending on the number of volunteers that can be found for the test.​

 

[Uncayimmy]

Like I said, out of state because my state is where I live, work, and study and a paranormal investigation is not part of my professional life and I'd like to keep them separate.

That's a load of crap. You've already talked to people at your university about your claims. You've been active in F-A-C-T. You've contacted other local Meetup groups. You've contacted city officials and the owner of a mall. You've walked the streets soliciting volunteers for to be read. And, most importantly, your name is all over the web. When you apply for a job, people are going to find out all about your claims.

You have no valid reason for not working locally with F-A-C-T. You know that the New York thing will never happen. This is an evasion.

And I have already determined that I will not have a full-body screen on the test.

Why? You said you can do it with one. I have given you very good reasons why it would make the test a order of magnitude easier to arrange and conduct. Simply "determining" that you're not going to do something is just childish.

Because my funds are very low right now,

You can do the test with F-A-C-T for virtually no cost if you use the screen.

No UncaYimmy, I already determined that my perceptions are reduced when there is a full-body screen.

No, you haven't determined that. You simply made up some story about your "targeting" taking more time to work. Your perceptions are still there. This is an evasion.

Let's say it is a true ability, then we don't really know what kind of "vibrational information" I'd be detecting. What if it is thermal information (heat patterns)?

Besides being a bunch of pseudoscientific babble, it is wholly inconsistent with everything else you've said. In your proposal the bodies can be covered with clothing and the kidneys will be blocked by a chair. You're making no sense.

The only reason you are mentioning thermal energy is because you shared some of your claims with a professor at your school, and he suggested it might be thermal. This, of course, blows out of the water your claim that you want to keep your paranormal claims out of your academic and professional life.

If any way possible, there will be no screen. Accept the limitations of my claimed ability and let's work from that.

It's not a limitation. You told us that you could still do it. In fact you did it on your first try. Why don't you practice like you did with lactobacillus?

I wouldn't need a screen with missing kidney because people without a kidney look exactly like people with both kidneys.

I've already explained that this is not the issue. The issue that without a screen you need far more people and time, which is a very real and practical problem.

I have determined that my claim doesn't perform as well with a full-body screen. The screen can not be used.

Repeating a lie doesn't make it true. Again, you were able to see the kidneys, it just took a little longer. And that was on your first try. The screen can be used. You simply refuse to do it.

We can all see this pattern, Anita. You are picking the most difficult "claim" to test and insisting it be done in the most expensive and resource intensive manner possible. You just want to avoid taking a test.

 

[Audible Click]

Actually, I was thinking about it and persons who've donated a kidney were not the ones who had an illness, and although donating a kidney is still a sensitive, personal and emotional experience, it would be even less moral to involve or exploit persons on the test who have had an illness. Such as persons who've had a tonsillectomy.

Please tell me this is a joke. You are now having moral qualms over people who have had their tonsils out? And yes I know it was an example but it is exceedingly bizarre.

 

[Akhenaten]

From this thread, today:

My boyfriend has had his tonsils removed and I can't quite detect that. Kidneys are large and I feel them easily.​

From the VFF website, today:

The images appear on any level of magnification. Starting from the same size as if we were looking at it with our eyes. But also deeper beyond, to see the structure of tissues. Or cells. And the molecular and atomic level, and then the vibrational level, which I believe is what all things are made of.​

Vision from Feeling - Claims Page

Please explain.​

 

[VisionFromFeeling]

Thank you for confirming that after nine months of 'studies' you are now seeking help with a 'preliminary' test and not the 'real' IIG test.

Give me a break. I wrote to the IIG in July 31 and still wait for their reply. Based on what they have said to me they are working on arranging the test. It would be difficult for us to discuss the official IIG test protocol since the IIG are not here with us or involved in our discussions at the moment. Meanwhile I hope to use an acceptable test protocol for the Preliminary test, just that the IIG are not here talking with us and what's to say whether they would accept what ever protocol we come up with here in the Forum.

Yes, nine months later and you are further away from a real test than when you joined JREF forums.

Absolutely not. I have determined a specific claim of kidney detection and have outlined the conditions that I require and that I can accept for the test. I am ready to take the official IIG test today if it is ready.

Wow! Looks like I've been accepted into the VFF fan club. Do I get a badge?

No, but you get a free head-to-toe VFF description of your tissues.

Yes, not what I asked. Have you contacted an imaging lab to ask if they do ultrasounds just for fun and education? Do they have waiting lists? how long for the results? Do you need a referral. Because if so it CAN NOT be part of your design

In the case that an ultrasound can not be arranged then no ultrasound will be performed. I would still want to have the Preliminary test even if it is not perfect because I have been asked by the IIG to do preliminary testing and I agree that I should.

I think any 1/10 test has to be abandoned simply because there is no viable way to scale it up to 1/1000.

It won't be a 1 in 10 test. That's just what we had to work with when we were considering a test in San Diego with one person who is missing a kidney. I will find more persons who are missing a kidney, but if I can't, then I will go ahead and have a Preliminary test with 1 in 10 odds because that is better than nothing and still serves the purpose of preliminary testing.

Putting aside the difficulties in obtaining a sufficient number of volunteers (including at least 3 people without kidneys) to properly perform the test, there is no way a 13 hour test will be accepted. That is well beyond the time limit placed under the MDC.

This is not for the MDC. This is for preliminary (practice) testing before the IIG test.

If some sort of screen or curtain cannot be used to shorten the test protocol, I see this all as a non-starter. Even if VFF needed more time for each "scan" with a screen, the lower number of necessary repetitions would overall seem to save a lot of time.

We have to work based on the limitations of my claim. A full-body screen will not be used. It is still a testable claim. One is not supposed to see kidneys through a shirt and the skin on their back.

(...) So any money going to you for any service would be in violation of your lack of work permit and can get you in trouble with the INS.

Obviously I was going to check with what I am allowed to do.

 

[Skeptical Greg]

I am ready to take the official IIG test today if it is ready.

IIG requested a date ... The ball is in your court..

Obviously I was going to check with what I am allowed to do.

So, you offered a plan before you determined if you would be allowed to, or not ?


Of course ! Not being allowed to, was your weasel for this episode...

Not your fault, again...

 

[Akhenaten]

There's no symptoms of missing kidney.

Have another guess, Doctor Sparky.

 

[VisionFromFeeling]

Please explain.

Although I do perceive images of the tissues in the throat of a person and see the various tissue folds, it is difficult to discern what exactly is the tonsils and whether they are there or not. The tonsils appear to be a more integral part of the tissues in the throat and are not as clearly defined or distinct as the kidneys are. Kidneys are large, firm, and dense, and their tissues are not interwoven with surrounding tissue and have a clearly defined boundary. Kidneys are far easier to detect than are tonsils. Also the absence of one kidney is easier to detect by comparing with the feeling of the other kidney on the other side.

I have chosen to test my claim of perceiving images of tissues with a kidney detection test. There is nothing any of you can say that will change that. A missing kidney is not visible by ordinary means of perception and forms a testable and falsifiable claim. Although I realize that certain other health information might be more convenient for other purposes, the kidney detection test weighs in all needs of the claimant and those of the test and is the very best choice and will not be changed.

 

[VisionFromFeeling]

Alright everyone, I am here to get help with designing an acceptable protocol for the preliminary testing that I plan to have before the official IIG test. I have outlined the claim and also both the requirements and limitations of that claim. The test will involve detecting which of persons is missing a kidney, and the test will not use a full-body screen that would cover the kidney area of the persons. Their backs are already covered with clothing and that should be sufficient.

I have agreed to seeing one volunteer at a time, and have also come down to 15 minutes of time with each person. We really have a testable claim here and I would like to see some comments and suggestions on the protocol we are working on. What are its problems at this point that need to be worked out before we can accept the protocol and move on to having the preliminary testing? Come on everyone, let's get the protocol set and so we can finally see VFF fail a conclusive test of her claim of medical perceptions, right?

PS. You guys are just stalling and obfuscating.

 

[Akhenaten]

From this thread, today:

We have to work based on the limitations of my claim. A full-body screen will not be used. It is still a testable claim. One is not supposed to see kidneys through a shirt and the skin on their back.​

From the VFF website, today:

The vision is in actual, natural color. Much of the inside of the body is in pink, orange and red. Images are three-dimensional and often perceived from many angles at once, from the front, behind, up, down, left and right at the same time. So images are not constructed from the sides that I am facing only. Although the inside of the body is dark, and a light source needs to be attached to optical instruments that are inserted into the body in medicine, my vision of tissues is bright and clear, and not surrounded by darkness.​

Vision from Feeling - Claims Page

Please explain.​

 

[Kariboo]

In the case that an ultrasound can not be arranged then no ultrasound will be performed.

Which will give you weasel out room: "I know they only have one kidney, it's just that I am not allowed to do an ultrasound...so my claim is not falsified.." How about this: pick up a phone and call around to see if it is/isn't possible. If it isn't then find a better way to conduct your test.

I will find more persons who are missing a kidney,

You can't find these people since it would defeat the double blind part of the test.

This is not for the MDC. This is for preliminary (practice) testing before the IIG test.

Yes, except you said this:

If the IIG test will take place before this Preliminary (Practice) test then that is ok.

One is not supposed to see kidneys through a shirt and the skin on their back.

Wut?

Obviously I was going to check with what I am allowed to do.

Well you obviously didn't, also if you are on a visa you should know what that visa does or does not allow you to do, just like the rest of us. Here you go though http://www.uscis.gov/portal/site/uscis

 

[Akhenaten]

Although I do perceive images of the tissues in the throat of a person and see the various tissue folds, it is difficult to discern what exactly is the tonsils and whether they are there or not. The tonsils appear to be a more integral part of the tissues in the throat and are not as clearly defined or distinct as the kidneys are. Kidneys are large, firm, and dense, and their tissues are not interwoven with surrounding tissue and have a clearly defined boundary. Kidneys are far easier to detect than are tonsils. Also the absence of one kidney is easier to detect by comparing with the feeling of the other kidney on the other side.

Rubbish.​

I have chosen to test my claim of perceiving images of tissues with a kidney detection test. There is nothing any of you can say that will change that.

Reality will speak for me, loudly.

A missing kidney is not visible by ordinary means of perception and forms a testable and falsifiable claim. Although I realize that certain other health information might be more convenient for other purposes, the kidney detection test weighs in all needs of the claimant and those of the test and is the very best choice and will not be changed.

Yes, it will. Small wager?

 

[VisionFromFeeling]

Either accept that my claim is detecting which of persons has had a kidney removed or get out of this thread and stop posting things that are thus regarded as off-topic and are getting in the way of working out a test protocol and having the preliminary testing take place.

I have FINALLY agreed to ONE specific, testable claim and now all this? What is it saying about you Forum "Skeptics"?

 

[Paul2]

VFF, have your forgotten about my idea (with some slight expansions below)?

1. subjects in bathing suits that do not cover the area where the kidney is
2. thin, opaque screen
3. marks on the ground or the screen that specify where the subject is standing
4. subject stands as close to the screen as possible without touching it (facing away from the screen or facing it, per your preference, specified before the test)

This eliminates the need for more than two volunteers, per UncaYimmy's protocol.

What's the problem with this?

 

[Kariboo]

What are its problems at this point that need to be worked out before we can accept the protocol and move on to having the preliminary testing?

How will you find volunteers? Since it has to be a double blind study, you cannot be involved in this, nor can anyone of your friends.

Where will the test be?

How will you get the room set up: i.e who is going to buy curtains and hang them?

How will you find a space?

How will you fund all of this?

How will you find skeptics to help you?

How will you prove that people have 1 or 2 kidneys?

How do you know you won't get so tired that you cannot do the test. Especially since this is a forced choice test and according to you:

The cereal tests required that I make forced attempts to detect the bacteria, rather than detecting it on its own as is normally the case, and also to make forced detection repeatedly over a period of several minutes up to an hour. I started to develop strong headaches and nausea <> I am however reluctant (or even fearful) of having more cereal type of tests, including coin detection and other chemical detection tests of this type since they make me very uncomfortable.

What will you do with the volunteers before/during/after the test? Since it has to be double blind they can not talk to you/friends/each other etc

How will you exclude any excuses after the fact?
How will you exclude any excuses during the fact?
How will you exclude any excuses before the fact?

 

[Audible Click]

I have chosen to test my claim of perceiving images of tissues with a kidney detection test. There is nothing any of you can say that will change that. A missing kidney is not visible by ordinary means of perception and forms a testable and falsifiable claim. Although I realize that certain other health information might be more convenient for other purposes, the kidney detection test weighs in all needs of the claimant and those of the test and is the very best choice and will not be changed.

So you have no alternate plan in case a workable protocol can't be designed?This seems a bit shortsighted. I would think you would, at the very least, consider having a test of one of your other claimed abilities as a Plan B. It's never wise to put all of your eggs in one basket.

 

[VisionFromFeeling]

I would think you would, at the very least, consider having a test of one of your other claimed abilities as a Plan B. It's never wise to put all of your eggs in one basket.

This is my strongest claim.

 

[Akhenaten]

Alright everyone, I am here to get help with designing an acceptable protocol for the preliminary testing that I plan to have before the official IIG test.

You don't have an automatic entitlement to receive help though. You would be better off if you stopped demanding it.

I have outlined the claim and also both the requirements and limitations of that claim.

You most certainly have not.

The test will involve detecting which of persons is missing a kidney, and the test will not use a full-body screen that would cover the kidney area of the persons. Their backs are already covered with clothing and that should be sufficient.

How has it been established that this "should" be enough?

I have agreed to seeing one volunteer at a time, and have also come down to 15 minutes of time with each person.

It's moot what you agree to. There are no volunteers.

We really have a testable claim here and I would like to see some comments and suggestions on the protocol we are working on.

What do you mean "we", white man?

There are several pages of them already but in your haste to churn out empty replies you have ignored most of what's been written.

What are its problems at this point that need to be worked out before we can accept the protocol and move on to having the preliminary testing?

It's rubbish, from the top down.

Go back and read that last line again.

Come on everyone, let's get the protocol set and so we can finally see VFF fail a conclusive test of her claim of medical perceptions, right?

Your arguments do not generate the pulling power required to make this type of emotional appeal. You ought to have made use of the assistance that was offered in this regard by the "amazing poster Akhenaten".

PS. You guys are just stalling and obfuscating.

Comedy fails you. Stick to your day job. No, wait . . .

 

[Akhenaten]

Either accept that my claim is detecting which of persons has had a kidney removed or get out of this thread and stop posting things that are thus regarded as off-topic and are getting in the way of working out a test protocol and having the preliminary testing take place.

I have FINALLY agreed to ONE specific, testable claim and now all this? What is it saying about you Forum "Skeptics"?

You appear to have omitted a quote from your post, so it is difficult to see at whom this demand might be directed. Some clarification please, when you have the time.

 

[Audible Click]

This is my strongest claim.

I understand that but worst case scenario is that the kidney detection claim protocol can't be made workable. A new protocol may be made workable with the help of the IIG at a later date. In the meantime you could practice test yourself with any of your other claims.