Archeologly proves the Bible?

[pakeha]

Thanks for that background material, Hokulele.
And from Wiki, no less.
I'm still not clear why Josephus is being cited as an historical source for the existence of the Exodus.
Unless, of course, there are no other sources available.

 

[Hokulele]

...

Unless, of course, there are no other sources available.

Ding! Ding! Ding!

You have just won 300 Internet points. Don't spend them all in one place.

 

[pakeha]

Thanks for the 300, Hokulele.
I'll be careful not to spend them all in the same place.

From Wiki on the subject of extra-Biblical sources for the Exodus:

Extra-Biblical sources

[edit] Josephus
In his Antiquities of the Jews and Against Apion, Josephus recounts a distorted tale supposedly from Manetho, identifying the expulsion of the Jews both with the Hyksos, and with the expulsion of a group of Asiatic lepers, led by a renegade Egyptian priest called Osarseph. It appears this tale is a conflation of events of the Amarna period, of the earlier Hyksos expulsion, and events throughout the 19th Dynasty.[citation needed] [edit]

If I understand this correctly, Josphus is simply passing along a corrupted version of a story which identifies the Exodus as 1/ part of the expulsioin of Asiatic lepers from Egyptian territory or 2/ with the end of the Hyskos invasion, 3/mix and match.

You could be forgiven for wondering why DOC even mentions Josephus as a source of historical legitimacy in this context.

 

[Akhenaten]

Maybe not prove but the empty tomb of the famous Jesus who the bible says preached to thousands at one time is definitely evidence.

An empty tomb is evidence of what exactly?

Osirisnet

The tomb was not the last resting place of Akhenaten.

Where can he be?

 

[SpuriusMaximus]

Also, statements like "fossil records disprove the bible because they show humans existed earlier than 6,000 years", should be reworded. I would suggest something like "Carbon dating methods contradict a literal interpretation of Genesis."

I'm with GrenME there. There are about a dozen different dating methods, and they all point at a world _much_ older than 6000 years.

I know it's probably too much to take in for Creationists, though. I mean, if they could learn all that, they probably wouldn't be in that camp to start with. So I guess I can excuse them for picking only on carbon dating, and only on distorted hearsay about it.

 

[amb]

But there is archaeological evidence that Muhammed ascended into heaven. His footprint on the Rock under the Dome of the Rock, that's there right now.

He flew to heaven on a flying horse.

 

[Elizabeth I]

An empty tomb is evidence of what exactly?

Osirisnet




Where can he be?

Wow, there may be hundreds, even thousands, of dead Egyptians who have risen and are walking around now.

If empty tombs are proof of anything.

 

[Simon39759]

]
And Josephus definitely talked about Moses being in Egypt. In fact he stated Moses was a general in the Egyptian military at one time.

And Josephus certainly did independant research.
There is no point he would have just copied the Old Testament and/or some religious tradition (aka religious meme) that would have developed around it.


You know how there are dozens of relics for each Saint, including several redundant ones?
How there are some crazy traditional legends popping up about, for example, Jesus visiting England and such?


It is just made up stories, people fitting the narrative into familiar context and connecting with it through objects and places they are familiar with.
Most likely, the same thing happened with the Jesus tombs. Some people had this story of Jesus and he had this cool cavern and prestohe connected the too.
Same thing with Moses, the story dates at least 500-600 years before Josephus and was passed along, retold every year by generation of Jews. Progressively, people added details to make a better story. That's how meme work! And, voila, the version that Josephus heard has many more details than the original OT version and Josephus, having little reason or interest to doubt it, just reported it.

 

[shadron]

Do you have a source for this.

Here is one: http://www.zeitah.net/UpdateTelZayit.html

 

[boloboffin]

He flew to heaven on a flying horse.

Oh, I heard different. I found the flying horse version too. But the horse's hoofprints are on the rock, so same difference. Archeologly RULZ!

 

[Simon39759]

The horse took support on the stone and pushed to take off.

It is not much different from the caves containing Jesus' alleged burial place.
People taking a real place or artefact and retrofitting it into their mythical/religious framework.

 

[DOC]

Seriously DOC, do you do any background checking of your sources? At all?

You might not like their current views but what exactly did they get wrong in their article about history?

And by the way, my original comment was for your use of "who was married in Alexandria Egypt", as if that had any relevance at all.

So the fact that the famous historian (Josephus) was married in Egypt and also went on a trip to Egypt with the Roman Emperor is of no relevance to you when Josephus writes about Egyptian history?

 

[boloboffin]

So the fact that the famous historian (Josephus) was married in Egypt and also went on a trip to Egypt with the Roman Emperor is of no relevance to you when Josephus writes about Egyptian history?

Hey, I went to Egypt in 2006, and I say he wasn't there. NOW what do we do?

 

[Hokulele]

You might not like their current views but what exactly did they get wrong in their article about history?

How did Josephus come to the conclusion that the Exodus happened and how did he date it?

(Hint, he based his conclusions on reading the Old Testament. In other words, you are again using the bible to prove the bible.)

Oh, and all that stuff in your article about chariot wheels being found at the bottom of the Red Sea is a load of cowspit. That is all traceable to Ron Wyatt and his assorted kookery.

http://www.truthorfiction.com/rumors/c/chariot-wheels.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ron_Wyatt

So the fact that the famous historian (Josephus) was married in Egypt and also went on a trip to Egypt with the Roman Emperor is of no relevance to you when Josephus writes about Egyptian history?

No.

 

[DOC]

Hey, I went to Egypt in 2006, and I say he wasn't there. NOW what do we do?

No offense, but I would trust a famous Jewish/Roman historian -- who knew the Roman Emperor (who was ruler over the Roman province of Egypt) good enough to travel with him to Egypt -- over you when he says Moses was in Egypt.

 

[DOC]

How did Josephus come to the conclusion that the Exodus happened and how did he date it?

(Hint, he based his conclusions on reading the Old Testament. In other words, you are again using the bible to prove the bible.)

What is your source that Josephus who personally knew the Roman Emperor (ruler over Egypt) and traveled with him to Egypt, only knew about Exodus from what he read in the OT. And how would you explain that Josephus wrote that Moses was a general in the Egyptian military and he defeated Ethiopia when this is not in the Bible.

 

[DOC]

Maybe not prove but the empty tomb of the famous Jesus who the bible says preached to thousands at one time is definitely evidence. The Church of the Holy Sepulchre was originally built by the Roman emperor Constantine's mother on the traditional site of Christ's death and burial.

From the article: Church of the Holy Sepulcher

The best piece of evidence that the tomb of Jesus was in this area is the fact that other first-century tombs are still preserved inside the church. Called the "Tomb of Joseph of Arimathea," these burial shafts (kokhim) are clearly from the time of Christ's death and thus attest to some kind of burial ground in the area. Combined with the evidence from tradition, this church is most likely the true location of the Christ's death and burial.

(Also notice the picture of some 1st Century preserved tombs that are located in the Church)

http://www.bibleplaces.com/holysepulcher.htm

So the presence of a burial site proves what exactly?

That picture of those 1st century tombs (dug out of rock) just out side the walls of Jerusalem proves that those tombs did in fact exist. I've had someone in another thread say so where is Jesus' tomb. From the evidence (including that photo) it seems likely it's right inside the Church of the Holy Sepluchre.

 

[Hokulele]

What is your source that Josephus who personally knew the Roman Emperor (ruler over Egypt) and traveled with him to Egypt, only knew about Exodus from what he read in the OT. And how would you explain that Josephus wrote that Moses was a general in the Egyptian military and he defeated Ethiopia when this is not in the Bible.

The article you just posted. You did read it, yes?

 

[paximperium]

That picture of those 1st century tombs (dug out of rock) just out side the walls of Jerusalem proves that those tombs did in fact exist. I've had someone in another thread say so where is Jesus' tomb. From the evidence (including that photo) it seems likely it's right inside the Church of the Holy Sepluchre.

So the presence of a burial site proves what exactly?

 

[DOC]

So the presence of a burial site proves what exactly?

That there were indeed 1st century tombs (dug out of rock) just outside one of the gates of Jerusalem.