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Truthers...what is your best piece of evidence ?

Spinelli, I just have one simple question for you: How would a virus designed to exploit Microsoft code running under the Windows operating system have any chance at all of interacting with network devices that don't run any Microsoft code and don't even use the Windows OS?
 
Spinelli, I just have one simple question for you: How would a virus designed to exploit Microsoft code running under the Windows operating system have any chance at all of interacting with network devices that don't run any Microsoft code and don't even use the Windows OS?
Would you like balsamic or Thousand Island with your answer?
 
I think if there is any truth to the story that the BBC "lost" all their news footage from that day, then this is an interesting line of enquiry.

AFAIK the footage was misfiled but was subsequently found at BBC.

End of myth.
 
Spinelli, I just have one simple question for you: How would a virus designed to exploit Microsoft code running under the Windows operating system have any chance at all of interacting with network devices that don't run any Microsoft code and don't even use the Windows OS?

with a 10 second dump window lol
 
Two things come to mind - the code was ticking into servers running MS Personal Web Server (the baby of Internet Information Server), and the code was expected to target computers with chinese keyboards. Perhaps there were more proportionally of these in Korea?

The point in bringing this up is to show that the behavior Code Red II displayed indicates it was not used to compromise news traffic. See, in order to compromise specific entities/groups/organizations, you must first target them. If the purpose of your worm is to compromise news and other info sources, and if your code contains a randomizer that makes the infection jump IP addresses, why would the bias end up being towards IP addresses in a foreign country? How much US media traffic flows through Korea before it hits the US?

The IP address bias the infection displayed demonstrated the intent of the Code Red author. He did not limit the randomizer to addresses that US news sources could be found in, he wrote it to bias its search for infectable IIS instances within similar IP address ranges. IP addresses take the form aaa.bbb.ccc.ddd (for example, forums.randi.org's IP address is 67.228.115.45). The worm first searches for addresses with the same "aaa.bbb", then for the same "aaa." only. After that, it went completely random. If this forum ran on IIS, and was infected by CodeRedII, the infection would first scan the 67.228.0.0 to 67.228.255.255 range for targets to infect, then the 67.whatever range. Given that the targeting is not towards news organizations, but instead towards saturating one range, then a wider range, then a random one, how can the argument be made that this virus was meant to compromise news traffic? It's not targeted towards news traffic, it's coded in a way to spread out wide and far.

So why Korea? In 2001 it was one of the nations that had increasing numbers of broadband users and poorly patched systems. In other words, it was ripe for random infections.

It's not hard at all to see that the idea behind Code Red II was to build numbers of infections, and propogate itself. Not to target specific systems. If the worm's purpose was to suborn media communications and not to build a widespread botnet, why in the world would it have ended up targeting a nation that has little to do with US news reporting and information propogation?

Being able to access explorer by contacting the host website is a far cry from being able to run cli. My understanding of the actual events surrounding the codered.d would be akin to sitting at your PC desktop remotely.

Oh, dear Lord... how do you reconcile the notion that the worm's activity is stealth with the claim that it acted like a remote desktop session? Do you have any idea how much bandwidth such a remote session uses?

On top of that, you also show that you do not understand how the worm actually functioned. The compromise was not done in order to allow for a remote graphic interface; that's ridiculous. The compromise of the explorer executable was in order to bypass file system restrictions and allow virtual web paths to the host drive to be made. File system permissions restrict that; otherwise, anyone with a simple web browser can go mucking about in the system directories of web servers. The compromised explorer executable bypasses that. And that allows someone to hit the IIS service with scripted commands like http://(IP of the compromised computer)/c/winnt/system32/cmd.exe?/c+(arbitrary command to be executed) and execute stuff written to directories not normally accessible through the web. Or in plain language, it allows a remote attacker to send a simple web request to the infected computer with a command tacked onto the end that'll execute in a directory other than the well secured prison you constructed for the web service to play in. As I said before, the replacement of the explorer and cmd executables was for precisely the reason I mentioned before: To shoot code through. A remote attacker would NOT conduct a remote GUI'd session, he'd send a single web command to the compromised instance of IIS and achieve his goals in that manner.

Now, given the nature of how the compromise needed to be used, how in the world would such a compromise be able to manipulate traffic in realtime? Just how insanely large would the code be that you'd append to the http request?

"Korean virus watchers say the worm has shown up in an even more deadly form, but experts in the United States think it's merely a repeat of what came before."
http://news.cnet.com/2009-1001-270945.html

Hyperventilating quotes do nothing to support your argument.

------

The fact of the matter is, you do not understand what CodeRed II did or how it operated. You see "system level compromise", "remote access" and a few other magical terms (like your blatant misunderstanding of dark addresses and border routers earlier, as well as your complete misapprehensions regarding logging and detection) and try to create a scenario where this specific worm is used to somehow control news traffic. You ignore the fact that such a compromise only works by throwing it small, very tightly coded commands via web protocols, and that compromising the output of a computer would require far more interactivity than that. And you also must actively ignore the fact that compromising a host does not mean you can compromise records of the traffic necessary to manipulate other traffic. In the end, you make blatant and completely unjustified conceptual leaps in what the infection truly allows a remote attacker to accomplish and what you think they should be able to accomplish. And you betray your lack of knowledge by posting either irrelevant citations or trying to throw together a lingo salad.

The suggestion that Code Red II was used to suborn and "control" media traffic fails on many counts. Others here have already pointed out the obvious, non-technical rebuttal (The news was demonstrably not manipulated). I here am providing the technical one: The nature of the infection does not lend itself to use in the manner you suggest. It's a failed proposition, based on a fundamental misunderstanding of how the worm operates.
 
Salad, salad, salad!.. That is not an appropriate subject for this thread!!

But sundaes... now that would be awesome :D! I'm having a hankering for a big, fat banana split right now (yes, I consider that a sundae... deal with it). Whipped cream, banana, nuts, strawberry and chocolate sauce all mixing together with the slowly melting ice cream... arrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr (*drool*) :drool:.

Dammit, you bastards... I'm diabetic. I can't eat those! WHY'D YOU LET ME START THINKING ABOUT THEM??!! :mad:
 
...The suggestion that Code Red II was used to suborn and "control" media traffic fails on many counts. Others here have already pointed out the obvious, non-technical rebuttal (The news was demonstrably not manipulated). I here am providing the technical one: The nature of the infection does not lend itself to use in the manner you suggest. It's a failed proposition, based on a fundamental misunderstanding of how the worm operates.
And thank you for doing that. I am forever grateful for people like you who can explore the technical aspects of truther claims.

lingo salad
With bacon, goat cheese, and croutons? *Gravy drools*

Actually, there are surely recipes for tongue salad, [edit: oh, yeah]

which may not be far off from this. Perhaps we should post those whenever we encounter one of these characters. (This is said with my certainty that Spinelli will not have learned a "lick" from our responses about his faulty reasoning.)
 
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Would you like balsamic or Thousand Island with your answer?

:big:

WordSalad.jpg


I'd like cake with that.
 
Spinelli, I just have one simple question for you: How would a virus designed to exploit Microsoft code running under the Windows operating system have any chance at all of interacting with network devices that don't run any Microsoft code and don't even use the Windows OS?


and seeing that most servers and data centers run on linux, ubuntu or similar. Even Unix systems.


Not to mention some states that even are still running older operating systems that wouldn't be affected.


Ahh geez, reality bites the mostly stupid of theories
 
Just out of curiosity Mr Gravy, have you thoroughly investigated the conspiracy claims around the London 7/7 bombings, or is that not really your purview?

If not, why not? Shouldn't a thorough investigator be looking for comparable incidents in order to try and determine relevant patterns?
 
I've searched under Gravy + 7/7 bombings and there were no matches.

So, here's a challenge for you Gravy; why don't you put your research and analytical skills to something you are less emotionally involved in, and do your debunking schstick on "our UK conspiracy"?
 
Just out of curiosity Mr Gravy, have you thoroughly investigated the conspiracy claims around the London 7/7 bombings, or is that not really your purview?

If not, why not? Shouldn't a thorough investigator be looking for comparable incidents in order to try and determine relevant patterns?
Huh? Truther claims about 9/11 stand or fall on their own merits. They've all fallen: every single one.

If you think you have something important to add to those failed claims, please do so now.

If you think I've gotten anything wrong in my 9/11 research, please explain now.

I've investigated the 7/7 attacks enough to convince me that truther claims about them are unsubstantiated. You'll find several threads about that subject here. Being a daily subway and bus traveler in NYC, I felt an affinity for the 7/7 victims. Here in NYC on 7/7, me and my company were involved in a response to the attacks, with armed troops holding suspected terrorists at bay and me trying to calm frightened tourists in their midst, and then to lead the non-suspects away to join me on a fun-filled tour of Manhattan. At the time I had no idea why all this was happening. Thereafter, for a while, I had my drivers check the bags and backpacks of every customer. When I learned about some of the 7/7 conspiracy theories, I naturally took an interest.

If you have something new to add about the 7/7 attacks, please present your information in a new thread in the conspiracy theories section. I'll be sure to read it.

Should you need information about 9/11, 7/7, the JFK assassination, the Oklahoma City bombing, the Pearl Harbor attack, the RFK assassination, the Malcolm X assassination, the Reichstag fire, the Ron Brown crash, the sinking of the USS Maine, the Titanic conspiracy theories, the Lusitania conspiracy theories; and you can't find reliable information elsewhere, let me know and I'll try to steer you to good sources.
 
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Are you planning to pay him for his time?

No. I'd expect any serious researcher to want to do it for their own satisfaction.

Gravy, just give me your most recent link to a discussion on 7/7, and I'll revive it.

Or better still, do what you did for Spinelli in another thread and stick all your pertinent links in one post. Then I can see what you've already covered.
 
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I've searched under Gravy + 7/7 bombings and there were no matches.

So, here's a challenge for you Gravy; why don't you put your research and analytical skills to something you are less emotionally involved in, and do your debunking schstick on "our UK conspiracy"?
Ragnarok seems to have mistaken this forum for "Royal Truther Command Performance."

This thread is about the best truther 9/11 evidence. I cannot imagine what is preventing you from presenting your best 7/7 conspiracy case in another thread, Ragnarok. Should you do so, you'll find respondents here who are far more capable than I of answering your questions.

Have at it, old sport.
 
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No. I'd expect any serious researcher to want to do it for their own satisfaction.
I care not a whit what you think about how I should spend my days. If you have something new and important to say, nothing is preventing you from saying it.

Have at it, old sport.
 

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