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VisionFromFeeling - General discussion thread

VisionFromFeeling said:
My past examples of chemical detection are different from what I was asked to do on the pill test.
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Please do not attempt to rewrite history. You were not "asked" to do anything - you offered. See the quotes below:

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=4325579#post4325579
It is something I experience. I do experience perceiving medical effects when I look at an unknown medicine or substance, and I have experienced correlation to their actual effects, but only a test can conclude whether this in fact takes place or not. Until a test indicates something, treat it as just anecdotes.
This is an experience and not a claim. Yet I would be more than willing to test it just to find out.
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So Pup suggested:
Have someone crush a few different pills into powder and mix the powder with a drop or two of food coloring, so you can't recognize them by their shape or color, and put each bit of powder into a different numbered cup, set a list of what they are on the table, and leave. You come in and write down which numbered cup is the aspirin, which number is the diuretic, which number is the anti-depressant, which is the antihistamine, and so forth.
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And you replied:
Thank you, I will try to arrange that
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and
Post #1120, it is a wonderful idea. I suggest that I try it at home first before your expense of putting it together.
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Pup even said not to worry about it if you couldn't read all of the chemicals.
If you don't experience anything, there's no pressure, no need to guess--just say so. If you only experience anything for one or two, just state the numbers you're sure of and ignore the rest.
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To sum it up:
* You made the claim.
* You said you wanted to test it.
* You said Pup's test idea was "wonderful"
* Pup did the legwork for you
* You received the chemicals
* You failed to give us any results whatsoever

You can call it what you want. I call it a failure.
 
VisionFromFeeling said:
I have submitted a claim for testing, and it is not up to you to choose something else for me to test. The kidney detection test is not expensive, time-consuming or cumbersome.
Nonsense. If I were I'd be after the JREF MDC like everyone else.
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Just to be clear, your website says you have been in touch with the JREF regarding taking the MDC. Not only that, but you were inquiring about the odds required of a chemical identification test.

In other words, you are after the MDC like everyone else and you did consider a chemical identification test. See the quoted material from your website. So please don't falsely accuse me of choosing your tests for you or incorrectly accuse of you seeking the MDC.

February 16 2008 - I begin correspondence with the JREF by sending them an e-mail asking whether I have sufficient media presence, and letting them know that I am returning to them with an official challenge application as soon as I have arranged for the demonstration with an academic to witness it.
April 24 2008 - I do not currently have sufficient media presence. Today I e-mailed the JREF asking about the percentage correct answers required in a chemical identification test.
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Hello Anita, it's been a few days and I was wondering the status of the scans you were going to post here.
 
8 months talking about screens and u still haven't tested it out yet??

Lets see if I can help. When you get home take a large beach towel hold it up in front of you and stand in front of your bathroom mirror can u see your kidneys still? Try a bed sheet and a blanket?

Was that so hard?
 
From the IIG Website:
http://www.iigwest.com/whatsnew/updates/200907_update.html
North Carolina's FACT has reported back on their study of IIG Challenge Applicant Anita Ikonen, whose "Vision From Feeling" (VFF) is an alleged paranormal ability to make medical diagnoses.

On April 4, 2009, Anita conducted a study with five members of FACT. On May 14, 2009 Dr. Eric Carlson wrote online saying that Anita did not perform very well in their study. Anita was one of four potential readers and she came in third. The other three people were members of the FACT group and claimed to have no abilities whatsoever. Dr. Carlson wrote, "It is clear that if one were to rely on VFF's diagnoses for medical decisions, based on this test, you could do as well by picking random people off the street and asking them what they think is wrong with a patient. It is clear from this study that VFF has not yet found any ability which is worthy of devising a full-scale test."

We are in talks with Anita to develop a new protocol that she has suggested. We will keep you posted on the progress.
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Anita, what progress have you made with them? If you intend to take the test before school starts again, you need to act quickly.
 
catbasket said:
Wasn't there some talk of sending crushed pills to VFF for her to identify using her Vibrational Algebra/x-ray vision? I wonder what came of that idea?
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The test was initiated, but Anita failed 100% in her effort to identify any pills. These results are consistent with every other study or test that she has attempted.
 
I dot really understand why Anita is proposing such an elaborate and hard to set up test here when on her website here she offers to have another go at identifying chemicals (in pills) just by looking at them.

Let's ignore the part where she pretends her previous attmpt to do this wasn't a failure and skip straight to the part where she says:

If anyone wants to put me through a medicine identification test then please do! You need access to a couple of different types of medicines. If any of them are prescription medicines that would be better since those have stronger effects and produce stronger chemical perceptions for me. It is better if the samples do not have similar effects in the body. I will need labeled samples of each for reference. E-mail me and I can provide my mailing address.
brightstar@visionfromfeeling.com
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This is EXACTLY what we have requested for ages.

So Anita, why not spend a little time in setting up this incredibly easy to carry out test? You appear to be offring to do so, it could be done easily with a skeptic group in a few hours and would require no volunteers, special premises, curtains, people with specific ailments, elaborate questionnaires, special permits... any of the many things which constantly appear to impede your ability to run any sort of test.
It could be done with no impact at all to your also carrying out the kidney test (which, let's face it, is hardly likely to happen quickly, if at all).

Or are you only willing to do that test via mail for some reason?

Surely, since you are keen to study your own 'abilities' and claims you would find such a test useful even if it only yielded a negative result.

I eagerly await your reasons for not wanting to carry out this crushed pill test.
 
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If any of them are prescription medicines that would be better <> I will need labeled samples of each for reference. E-mail me and I can provide my mailing address
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.

Is it even legal to send labeled/unlabeled prescription medications to someone who is not prescribed them?
 
Kariboo said:
.Is it even legal to send labeled/unlabeled prescription medications to someone who is not prescribed them?
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In fairness, I doubt the FDA would be concerned about a crushed pill sample, if it contained only one pill.

However, labeled samples defeat the purpose of such a test. It's just a form of cheating. Of course, this has been explained to Anita a multitude of times...
 
Actually, I might be able to help out with another medication test, even though I suspect it won't really mean anything. I work in a pharmacy, which also does compounding.

There are lots of white medications that do completely different things. If crushed very very finely, five different kinds of medication that are not colored are virtually indistinguishable from each other by sight alone, even if you do have intact, labeled "reference" samples right there in front of you.

I could prepare five of these samples that have the same amount of crushed medication in each packet (so nobody would be able to match up the medications according to intact pill size to volume of the crushed medication sample) and send them off?

ETA: In addition to this, I could also send identical samples to a couple of random forum members to see what the results would be from just random guessing alone. If Anita does no better than forum members who are just guessing, even with reference samples and powder that has not been "contaminated" with food color, then I wonder how she would interpret that?
 
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paperskater said:
Actually, I might be able to help out with another medication test, even though I suspect it won't really mean anything. I work in a pharmacy, which also does compounding.

There are lots of white medications that do completely different things. If crushed very very finely, five different kinds of medication that are not colored are virtually indistinguishable from each other by sight alone, even if you do have intact, labeled "reference" samples right there in front of you.

I could prepare five of these samples that have the same amount of crushed medication in each packet (so nobody would be able to match up the medications according to intact pill size to volume of the crushed medication sample) and send them off?
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But do they smell/taste the same? Do they react similarly to common household substances (ammonia, vinegar, etc.)?

I really think the pills, both the test samples and the labled samples, need to be handled by a third party to avoid any accusations of cheating.
 
Hokulele said:
But do they smell/taste the same? Do they react similarly to common household substances (ammonia, vinegar, etc.)?

I really think the pills, both the test samples and the labled samples, need to be handled by a third party to avoid any accusations of cheating.
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I was thinking of sealing them to avoid any smell or taste testing, with some kind of untamperable mark on the bags. If Anita can see through metal nitrogen gas tanks, a little clear plastic Ziploc baggie shouldn't be a problem.
 
Kariboo said:
.

Is it even legal to send labeled/unlabeled prescription medications to someone who is not prescribed them?
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No, it's not. It's absolutely illegal, or I would have three prescription drugs, entirely different in their uses and not compounded with other drugs, on their way to VFF right now. It's yet another impossible-to-carry-out test.
 
Just a note up front, I wouldn't be able to prepare these until after Aug 20 because I'll be out of town in New York!
 
This isn't fair at all. All you rascals are trying to bully Anita. Anita just needs a fair shot at proving her case. Let her do her haunted motel room stuff first. The medicine and kidney stuff can wait. Hasn't she proven enough already?

Anita offers a fair hypothetical test you all are afraid to accept. Let her look at the back of the sujects for few hours. Why should that bother you? This stuff takes time. You have no idea.
 
Skeptical Greg said:
The jig has been up for a long time...

We have already been through the pill thing ..

It's not going to happen ..

I hate to see anyone wasting time on this .. Read through the other threads.. particularly the first one...

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=128149



Anita has no intention of taking a truly controlled test ...
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I've been following all the VFF threads from the very beginning and have read every single post in all the threads. Unfortunately, I'm all too familiar with her apparent dodging.

However, I want to try and give Anita another fair shot at this medication test, despite all of her protestations that it's not her "main claim" and whatnot. Since she has brought it up again herself, I figured I would try and offer her a second chance because I don't want her to feel cheated out of something.

It seems like her main problem with the first one was that she didn't have any "reference samples". I'm aware of all the problems and inconsistencies that brought up, however, perhaps another go that addresses all of her claimed problems with the first test would fix all of that.

Anita, besides having "reference samples", what other things would you need to feel like you'd be having a fair test? (Within reason, please.)

(Maybe we should make another thread about this... I don't want to get in trouble for derailing!)
 
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