Amway TV ad

[icerat]

The same reason I have a problem with Benie Madoff. MLM is fundamentally flawed.

What's fundamentally flawed about "buy in volume, get a discount, sell at a markup"?

 

[NewtonTrino]

Nothing. Unfortunately that's a gross simplification.

 

[NewtonTrino]

Please do tell - in which endeavour is it that the people that are the least successful earn the most?

Pretty much any opportunity is better than the one where those at the bottom get fleeced and make worse than nothing.

 

[icerat]

Nothing. Unfortunately that's a gross simplification.

It's a 100% accurate description of the multi-level part of Amway's compensation plan, and most others I've look at.

Pretty much any opportunity is better than the one where those at the bottom get fleeced and make worse than nothing.

You know what you know and no part of reality is going to change that, I get it. Did you see yet another Amway product got named "best buy"? This time it was eSpring in Consumer Digest. Those poor fleeced consumers ....

 

[NewtonTrino]

It is 100% accurate. It's also a simplification to the point of uselessness.

 

[icerat]

It is 100% accurate. It's also a simplification to the point of uselessness.

Ok, how about this -

buy in volume, get a discount, sell at a markup, pay a small yearly fee to have someone else handle all the payments and other logistics.

 

[oggiesnr]

Ok, how about this -

buy in volume, get a discount, sell at a markup, pay a small yearly fee to have someone else handle all the payments and other logistics.

TANSTAAFL

Steve

 

[icerat]

TANSTAAFL

Steve

Nope, and nowhere did I suggest there was. Indeed, as I keep asking - why do some of the people here have such a problem with the idea that the people who don't work don't make any money?

somehow I doubt I'm chatting to a group of hard core communists, but you never know!

 

[Almo]

Nope, and nowhere did I suggest there was [a free lunch].

Yup, Icerat never said there was a free lunch. The main argument is what the true cost of the lunch is.

Indeed, as I keep asking - why do some of the people here have such a problem with the idea that the people who don't work don't make any money?

No problem with that. The issue is that there are better uses of time than Amway if you look at profit/hour, and that the BEST way to make money in Amway is to get in early, and sit at the top of the pyramid scraping off the cream from the people at the bottom who are the ones least able to afford to pay your salary.

 

[icerat]

the BEST way to make money in Amway is to get in early, and sit at the top of the pyramid scraping off the cream from the people at the bottom who are the ones least able to afford to pay your salary.

That's an utterly nonsensical statement devoid of any connection to the reality of the Amway business model, let alone the reality of Amway history.

In trying to interpret it though, you seem to be criticising Amway because it's the people who work hard over time and generate sales that make money, rather than people who have either (a) just joined and generated no sales volume or (b) a simply customers.

Could you provide me with any examples of an industry where the customers or people who have just started a business make more money than those who have been in business for a long time and generated a large number of sales?

 

[Almo]

Could you provide me with any examples of an industry where the customers or people who have just started a business make more money than those who have been in business for a long time and generated a large number of sales?

I can provide MANY examples where the people who start are paid real money for the first hour they work. But that's so obvious, I won't bother.

Also, starting your own business (where you actually go negative when you start) is better because you're not throwing all this money to your upline.

MLM stinks.

 

[oggiesnr]

I would be fascinated to see the breakdown of how these Ambassadors etc make their money. How much of it comes from tools, how much from their downline and how much from their actual sales. Anyone know of any figures?

Steve

 

[NewtonTrino]

The main argument is what the true cost of the lunch is.

Exactly! Of course you can retail product or sponsor people and make a few bucks. That has never been the issue. The issue is whether or not you would be better to spend your time doing something else.

This of course completely ignores the tools or cult angle which make amway not worth touching by themselves. Why anyone would want to be involved with something so tainted boggles my mind.

 

[icerat]

I can provide MANY examples where the people who start are paid real money for the first hour they work. But that's so obvious, I won't bother.

Uhuh. So these people decided to start a business, and where profitable within an hour of the decision?

I don't believe it.

Also, starting your own business (where you actually go negative when you start) is better because you're not throwing all this money to your upline.

Yeah, it's better to throw money at your upline suppliers than it is at your ... upline suppliers.

That makes sense.

MLM stinks.

You apparently are suffering psychosomatic symptoms. Perhaps you should see a doctor?

 

[icerat]

I would be fascinated to see the breakdown of how these Ambassadors etc make their money. How much of it comes from tools, how much from their downline and how much from their actual sales. Anyone know of any figures?

As I stated numerous times, the figures I gave were Amway income alone. Not speaking fees. Not BSM income. Not investments. Not other businesses. Not consulting. Amway income alone.

 

[CynicalSkeptic]

Yeah, it's better to throw money at your upline suppliers than it is at your ... upline suppliers.

In MLM, your upline aren't your suppliers, they're middlemen who are skimming commissions.

In non-MLM franchise business you don't generally
1. Purchase finished product paying huge commissions to fellow franchise owners.
2. Expect your end customers to also be franchise owners who you can collect commissions from.

 

[Porkchopjim]

The fact Scheibler had to apologise to Amway for making false statements to the press,...

Well – that's not a real 'fact' is is? Could we possibly get a SINGLE TRUTH OUT OF YOU?

Scheibler apologized for things said on his behalf. He CLARIFIED that he did not say them directly, and if he was indicated as having SAID those things, that was not intented.

[*]Every lawsuit by an IBO against Amway talking about experiences like Scheibler's originated from one Amway group and it's offshoots

That One Amway group is the model for all the others. Selling dubious amounts of 'business support tools' and other useless junk to downline is the proven model for ALL these stupid 'systems.' Seems your panties only get bunched when that material includes politics and religion.

Not to mention, those 'groups' that STILL act like morons have achieved the same accreditation as 'valuable training systems' as your beloved branch of the cult.

A rational person must ask - if everyone in Amway is acting like these people describe, why does the majority of Amway (which exists outside this group and it's offshoots) generate pretty much nothing in the way of criticism?

A rational person might also question why other cults still exist and recruit and survive. Odd argument: Amway exists so it can't be bad.


This sure is easier on your own site, isn't it, where everyone already belongs to the cult?

But, keep up the good work, you've ALMOST got them convinced here!

 

[CynicalSkeptic]

The MLM mindset.

I am trying to build a future and if it takes sometime to do so than that is fine,so out here in the real world a traditional buisness would cost a bundle to get started and off the ground.This is a real buisness to me and I have a product to move by convencing people to take a chance on an oppertunity that I believe exists for payments of $XXX.00 amonth.

(emphasis mine, all spelling errors are original. I also edited out the monthly price).
disclaimer: This person is not talking about Amway, he's talking about another MLM, but in my mind, all MLMs are the same. I'm sure Tex or icerat will disagree, but I see the "MLM business opportunity" as "convince other people to convince yet other people to convince more people that this is a good business". If you can do that, yes you can make money, but that's exactly what a pyramid scam does. The products are just a front to make it legal.

 

[Tex2]

I'm still waiting for icerat/insider/ibofb and Newton to respond to the last posts I directed towards them. How about the rest of you holding their feet to the fire?

 

[Almo]

Uhuh. So these people decided to start a business, and where profitable within an hour of the decision?

I don't believe it.

Just get a job at McDonald's. You'll get a check in about two weeks. I'm not eliminating just getting a job from the range of opportunities people have to earn money.