Moderated Continuation - Why a one-way Crush down is not possible

[BigAl]

Given the well motivated suspicions of controlled demolition and the extremeness of the statistical unliklihood of this anomaly the explosive demolition of WTC1 is a cast-iron certainty.

Well, we now know that statistics and probability is one more thing Bill is ignorant of.

 

[Grizzly Bear]

BS thinks that the earth is 4,500 years old?

Oh brother.

He actually does mean 4.5 billion... sometimes the numbers are said as "X" thousand million years... or something to that effect. Not a common pronunciation of the numbers but they're sometimes said that way.

Calm down...you don't have to get mad about it.

I'm not mad about anything. I just find it hilarious that in order to argue that physics were somehow "violated," Anders himself must ignore it in his own models. It's one thing to simplify a model while still keeping in mind the real complexity of an event, it's an entirely different matter when it flirs completely out the window.

You just have to answer the question or accept that a collapse of any structure, big or small on this planet ever in it's 4,500 million year history has never, ever happened

Since everything happens for the first time in history at some point, I don't have a problem. It's been known for centuries that steel as a material can be made malleable by heating it up. It's also extremely well established that as a structural material, it's one of the most vulnerable to thermal effects in spite it's relative light weight as well as tensile and compressive strength. If a material can fail then so can the assembly it makes up under the right set of circumstances. I understand this simple concept, why don't you?

by the topnost and lightest one-tenth crushing the other and stronger nine-tenths down flat on the ground by gravity alone.

Nobody's, making a claim based on this.

If you cannot then you are left with a situation that has never ever taken place and you must obviously show how that occurred.

Dictating impossibility by a "first time in history" is a paradox. If something is impossible on the basis that it has never happened before, then how did well... anything happen in the first place?

We don't have to explain it obviously. We say it was controlled demolition...

Have you spent the last two years of your life living in a cave? I'm afraid that's affected your understanding of what burden of proof is.

Good bai.....

 

[FineWine]

Raising your shields will not help Newton. It is painfully obvious that neither you nor your fellows have any answer to the critical question posed to you in that last post. Make no mistake- everybody can see that. It ould not be more obvious.

One-tenth of a structure has never. ever in the entire history of this planet crushed down the other nine-tenths of the same structure to the ground by gravity alone and it never ever will. The real Newton says so. Therefore WTC1 had to be a controlled demolition and no error. End of story.

Bill, we understand that thinking is an activity that does not come easily to you, but really--

FULLY-FUELED COMMERCIAL AIRLINERS HAVE CRASHED INTO EXACTLY TWO BUILDINGS IN ALL OF RECORDED HISTORY, AND BOTH OF THOSE BUILDINGS COLLAPSED.

THIRTEEN COLLAPSING FLOORS HIT ONE FLOOR, NOT A MYTHICAL "PART A."

It's quitting time, Bill. Really. Enough is enough.

 

[FineWine]

We are the painful Truth
Lower your shields
You will be rehabilitated
Normal service will be resumed
Resistance is futile.

Let me edit:

"We are the pain-in-the-ass Truth
Lower your IQs
You will be bored sick
Normal service will be resumed when we go away
Resistance to our stupid lies is recommended"

 

[MIKILLINI]

even if the buildings didnt fall i still think we would have been in pretty much the same place as we are today

It would. The twoof side makes useless arguments of controlled demolition simply because they do what Bill does...the imagery fascinates them because it looks like CD.

 

[FineWine]

Isaac Newton trumps NIST every single time.

No, Bill, the real scientists and engineers at NIST understand Newton. You don't.

 

[Grizzly Bear]

Those guys have been at this for years.

It took me sometime to get over with Heiwa even though I knew all of this full well... Can't say I'm any different than most others in stubbornly thinking responding to them is going to change anything. Believe it or not interjecting to remind some of of us who are a bit more stubborn with this is a nice reminder.... thanks for that.

 

[newton3376]

Those guys have been at this for years. This isn't a matter of someone being stubborn about a difference of opinion regarding an engineering calculation.

This is not an intellectual engineering issue.

If people think they are helping these guys with their problem, the way I see it is it's like trying to help a drug addict by handing him crack whenever he wants it. These guys have no interest in correct engineering principles, they just want more crack.

Sadly...there is a good chance you are correct...it's just sad to see an engineer do and say the things that Tony is doing...

Whatever though, I'll shut up again for a bit and watch the trolls get exactly what they want.

I hope you don't think I was implying you should "shut up"....

My post was a rant but not directed at you.....I just am really really disappointed in fellow engineers who believe and say the things that truthers do....

 

[tsig]

Raising your shields will not help Newton. It is painfully obvious that neither you nor your fellows have any answer to the critical question posed to you in that last post. Make no mistake- everybody can see that. It ould not be more obvious.

One-tenth of a structure has never. ever in the entire history of this planet crushed down the other nine-tenths of the same structure to the ground by gravity alone and it never ever will. The real Newton says so. Therefore WTC1 had to be a controlled demolition and no error. End of story.

I built some stairs last week. Never in the History of the world had I ever before built any stairs. Do they exist?

You seem to have run aground here Bill. Something always has to happen for the first time.

 

[MIKILLINI]

Calm down...you don't have to get mad about it. You just have to answer the question or accept that a collapse of any structure, big or small on this planet ever in it's 4,500 million year history has never, ever happened by the topnost and lightest one-tenth crushing the other and stronger nine-tenths down flat on the ground by gravity alone .

If you cannot then you are left with a situation that has never ever taken place and you must obviously show how that occurred. The onus is definately on you.

We belong to the 100% has- never-ever-happened camp- the 100% majority.

You blong tto the camp that must explain the only deviation ever from this perfect record.

We don't have to explain it obviously. We say it was controlled demolition and therefore still belongs to our camp- leaving Isaac Newton vindicated.

Ergo: you must prove that WTC1 was not brought down by controlled demolition.

Hey Bill, your paradox is similar to asking this question: If you were told that you can only take a Trans-Atlantic trip on a proclaimed unsinkable ship and you were also chosen as the one to give it a name; what would you name it and why?

 

[FineWine]

Hey Bill, your paradox is similar to asking this question: If you were told that you can only take a Trans-Atlantic trip on a proclaimed unsinkable ship and you were also chosen as the one to give it a name; what would you name it and why?

People find Bill's idiocies so amusing, while finding grappling with him so unproductive, because he doesn't have the slightest idea of what he's trying to claim. Is he saying that the towers collapsed purely from the effects of gravity? Apart from the no-planers, who are totally deranged, even the most dullwitted "truthers" acknowledge the necessity of including the planes in their silly myths. So, once you corner him him and force him to admit that there were planes involved, now you have the problem of figuring out what his actual argument is. It goes something like this:

No building has ever collapsed from gravity alone;

The towers did not collapse from gravity alone:

Therefore, the towers were blown up.

As we learned from excruciating attempts to penetrate the illness-induced fog in Ultima1's brain, merely pointing out logical flaws is a mug's game. Bill can't formulate a coherent argument for his fantasies. How can you refute what doesn't exist?

 

[tsig]

Hey Bill, your paradox is similar to asking this question: If you were told that you can only take a Trans-Atlantic trip on a proclaimed unsinkable ship and you were also chosen as the one to give it a name; what would you name it and why?

Bill probably made a first post here at JREF but obviously that couldn't happen since he had never posted before.

 

[bill smith]

Hey Bill, your paradox is similar to asking this question: If you were told that you can only take a Trans-Atlantic trip on a proclaimed unsinkable ship and you were also chosen as the one to give it a name; what would you name it and why?

Probably 'USS Lusitania II '
Why ? Becuse its demise was brought about by explosive means too.

 

[FineWine]

Probably 'USS Lusitania II '
Why ? Becuse its demise was brought about by explosive means too.

Some of us have noticed that the beating you're absorbing today is unusually severe. I have a suggestion:

As you can never hope to advance your insane movement one inch by using your staggering ignorance of science and engineering to overturn the conclusions reached by real engineers, physicists, fire safety experts, and demolition professionals, why not attempt something none of your fellow frauds has had the stones to try? Make the positive case for demolition.

Your position is that the demolition experts know less about their profession than you do. Present your secret knowledge so we can all examine it. Show us why your knowledge of the subject trumps theirs.

 

[MIKILLINI]

Probably 'USS Lusitania II '
Why ? Becuse its demise was brought about by explosive means too.

Why are are you using events in the past to influence your answers? Why are you using an event that was well known and proven to conjure up a name, while you remain on the speculative side? The side that has remained in it's non-compelling state (even when it's sensationalism reached a zenith) for 8 years.

 

[TruthersLie]

Calm down...you don't have to get mad about it. You just have to answer the question or accept that a collapse of any structure, big or small on this planet ever in it's 4,500 million year history has never, ever happened by the topnost and lightest one-tenth crushing the other and stronger nine-tenths down flat on the ground by gravity alone .

If you cannot then you are left with a situation that has never ever taken place and you must obviously show how that occurred. The onus is definately on you.

We belong to the 100% has- never-ever-happened camp- the 100% majority.

You blong tto the camp that must explain the only deviation ever from this perfect record.

We don't have to explain it obviously. We say it was controlled demolition and therefore still belongs to our camp- leaving Isaac Newton vindicated.

Ergo: you must prove that WTC1 was not brought down by controlled demolition.

So then bill.

According to you and your 100% never happened before group

jets are fake
airplanes are fake
satelights are fake
the international space station is fake
electric light bulbs are fake
atom bombs are fake
and even automobiles are fake.

Be careful crossing the street bill... those fake cars HURT

 

[TruthersLie]

Nobody argues about that. Topic is here that a one-way crush down of a structure will not follow due to some local failures and application of energy up top.

Actually bill does...
and so does half of your own movement.

when will you as a representative condemn the blatant BS and lies of your own movement?

Gregory Urlich has denounced the blatant falsehoods of twoofs... why can't/won't you?

 

[FineWine]

So then bill.

According to you and your 100% never happened before group

jets are fake
airplanes are fake
satelights are fake
the international space station is fake
electric light bulbs are fake
atom bombs are fake
and even automobiles are fake.

Be careful crossing the street bill... those fake cars HURT

Bill may well be the dullest tool in the shed, or anywhere else, but by now he regrets his attempt to persuade us that nothing can ever happen for the first time. It's his old failing: he posts nonsense that sounds good to him, and finds himself stuck defending sheer idiocy.

 

[Heiwa]

The original thread had become rather long, so it has been closed to help the server cope. Please continue the discussion here.

However, note that due to the excessive amounts of insults, bickering and general derailing, this thread is being set to moderated status. Do not attempt to take the discussion to other threads to avoid this.

Replying to this modbox in thread will be off topic  Posted By: Cuddles

It seems this thread that I started is >90% off topic. Time to clean up?

 

[beachnut]

...
You actually need a big hammer just to bend a small piece of steel, etc, etc. ...
It is really fascinating to see how many JREFers, incl. alleged engineers, scientists, etc, that believe in the NIST &@*#~}+! What a load of &@*#~çù£ you produce in order to hide your ignorance.

Why do you bring up NIST? NIST is not needed to understand impacts, fires and gravity destoryed the unique design of the WTC towers which you have proven the core has no lateral strength.

You blieve the core of the WTC could stand by itself and in your failed 40 mph wind calculation prove it can't stand lateral inputs. You work sucks as you look for jolts in real life based on a model. This was the funniest thing I have seen as the jolt you are looking for in a low resolution, low sample rate video would not see the jolt anyway. You have no clue what models are for since your world is not real but a parnoid fantasyland of delusions where thermite is painted on steel, imbedded in ceiling tiles, and fused to make silent explosives go off. It is funny after 7 years you have failed to apply any rational thought to your failed conclusion.

So you support Heiwa who says if you drop the top 10 persent of the WTC on the WTC tower the collapse will stop in a second. You support the pizza box engineering delusions of someone who comes up with his bar talk ideas in drunken haze like manner and talks of kids jumping on beds as his analogy to prove the WTC can't collapse like they did. So ironic as you guys lack the evidence but still make up lies and delusions only a few fringe idiots believe in due to their complete lack of knowlege in math, physics and engineering. Your ideas and Heiwa's ideas must take seed in minds completely ignorant on a host of subjects to take root. How anti-intellectual as anyone with a grade school education can see you are full of BS with your explosives/thermite delusions. Thus I can use cause and effect from first grade instead of using my engineering masters degree and my experience of 50 years building stuff to see your ideas are a complete failure on 911.

So spew your hammer is needed to bend steel smokescreen to fool idiots too lazy to gain knowledge and think for themselves; you are in the proper company with Jones a failed scholar with thermite insanity eating up his rational mind. At least BYU understood he went nuts on 911 issues and fired him. Sad they don't sanction him to save their own intellectual reputation.

The PhDs I know don't have to pay to publish their ideas in journals like your hero thermite Jones has to.

What a load of &@*#~çù£ you produce ...

Great stuff? Is that what you miss spelled? This proves you lack the evidence, skill, and the right stuff to make a difference and prove your moronic explosives and thermite conclusions on the WTC.

The WTC towers fall after fires from impacts equal to 1300 and 2093 pound of TNT in the shape of jet aircraft damaged both towers and destroyed the fire control systems (no water) and dislodged massive amounts of fire proofing. Remember the fireproofing under the floors could be touched and it would fall off no HAMMER needed! And the fireproofing on the core consisted of mostly two sheets of gypsum board a total of 3 inches thick which of course had to be removed for the idiotic ideas of you to be achieved with painted on thermite, super-nano-thermite, or do you have the thermite chips in the ceiling tiles. This is so stupid I can't see any engineer spew this tripe and not be insane. So we have gypsum board which we can scrape off with a sharp object just like the people stuck in an elevator did, they cut through the gypsum to escape the elevator and get out of the WTC before it fell. You see buildings on fire fall it is a known fact save the few fringe cult members of your failed movement don't comprehend.

Major impacts; Impacts 7 and 11 times greater than the real chief structural engineer designed for. Tony this is an order of magnitude greater aircraft impact than designed for and as all engineers know that is significant and if you don't think so then you are not very good at this.

What major building have you designed Tony?

What building did you design and consider an aircraft impact of 187 pounds of TNT kinetic energy? Gee Robertson structurally designed the WTC towers and he says your conclusions are ridiculous. Why would he say your failed conclusion is ridiculous since he was the number one expert on the WTC? This impact was 7 time greater at 1300 pounds of TNT than the designed was for at 187 pounds of TNT. This is the reason the fires systems and fire proofing were destroyed. Tony why do you fail to comprehend why the WTC towers failed? Robertson says your conclusion is ridiculous! This great we have the man who built the WTC structurally refuting your delusion and his building did stand and you have built what? Tony you cannot build a rational conclusion on 911 let alone a building.

This was the 2093 pounds of TNT kinetic energy impact of Flight 175 and leaving no doubt it destroyed fireproofing materials and damaged the WTC. More energy than the 93 bomb just from the impact and the equal of 315 TONS of heat energy from the jet fuel alone. More energy than your failed thermite fraud which you like to propagate with Dr Thermite on the brain Jones. Who thinks up your failed conclusions for you?

Wait are you a no plane person?

So you and Heiwa share the inability to build buildings, understand buildings, understand failure modes, understand reality, and share the same paranoid delusions of 911 being an inside job backed up with zero evidence; just talk.

No one in your failed movement is able to defend their conclusions with rational evidence; just hearsay, lies and moronic delusions. By letting BillSmith support you and not correcting her failed ideas you have sealed your fate as a moronic conclusion pusher supporting your failed conclusion with nothing.

&@*#~çù£

This is your best effort yet but falls short of supporting the delusions of Heiwa and BillSmith. I have found Heiwa, yourself and BillSmith to have exactly the same engineering skills with respect to your moronic collusion on the WTC.