Sane Republicans should leave the party now

[Foolmewunz]

Yep!

Come over to the dark side, Piggy. We have cookies Mississippi Mud Cake, Pecan Pie, Fried Okra, and legitimate Georgian Open Pit Barbecue.

 

[Piggy]

Yup. And when they run out of ammo, it looks as if they're going to start hurling rocks at each other. It's just plain sad.

It's already started to degenerate into pushing and shoving in Tampa.

This is what happens when disruptive behavior is encouraged rather than shamed.

We'll see what the major parties' responses are.

I think they can turn this thing around if they (1) focus on the issue of all voters' rights to hear and be heard and (2) bring in effective crowd control that doesn't consist of highly visible police bristling with gear.

I'm not hopeful.

 

[Darth Rotor]

Should rational conservatives simply remain independent then regroup?

Regardless, it's time to starve the cancer.

The self destruction began in the 2004 election cycle, if not slightly sooner. The purge that should have happened after the 2006 failures didn't happen, so stuck on stupid is gonna keep on going until the internal struggles produce something closer to what you characterize as sane. Rational conservatives are having the same problem rational liberals had about a decade ago, the tainting of their platform by whack jobs.

Bottom of the sine wave status arrives for a good reason: people start believing their own BS.

DR

 

[Piggy]

Yep!

Come over to the dark side, Piggy. We have cookies Mississippi Mud Cake, Pecan Pie, Fried Okra, and legitimate Georgian Open Pit Barbecue.

Well, I can't eat the pecan pie anymore, sadly, and I make my own Georgia barbecue.

And btw, MM, I'm not a lifetime Republican. Although on polls I tend to score more to the conservative side than your average self-described conservative (most notably on the recent "gut" polls, which are very interesting) I haven't found that the Republican Party has matched my views on some very important issues for some time now.

I fall into the "Rockefeller Republican" camp, tho I vote for candidates rather than parties. I used to be a McCain supporter, but he lost me with his health care scheme (new tax, new gov't payout, bogus math) and the Palin pick.

I would like to see the GOP become viable again, certainly, because as it is I can't consider giving Republican candidates my vote. And I think Democrats should also want the GOP to pull back from the abyss -- altho it's hard to convince many of them of that.

It would please me even more if there were an all new Conservative Party that pulled in moderates and independents and kicked the wingnuts to the curb.

 

[Piggy]

The Government can't even run the "Cash for Clunkers" program and you want me to believe they will run health care efficiently?

I'd like to address this, both the Clunkers program (which is a bad idea, but for reasons other than those usually cited) and the issue of efficiency of paying for health care, but I don't have time right now.

Just posting this as a reminder to myself to come back to it.

 

[Foolmewunz]

I'm of an age that I well remember the moderate Republicans. Rockefeller, Scranton, Javits, Lindsay, G. Romney... Hell, I admired most of them and voted for a couple.

Having said that, I now sympathize with your plight. There wouldn't be any room under the tiny tent for the likes of same nowadays.

 

[Brainster]

More thuggery at a townhall meeting:

Kenneth Gladney, 38, a conservative activist from St. Louis, said he was attacked by some of those arrested as he handed out yellow flags with "Don't tread on me" printed on them. He spoke to the Post-Dispatch from the emergency room at St. John's Mercy Medical Center, where he said he was awaiting treatment for injuries to his knee, back, elbow, shoulder and face. Gladney, who is black, said one of his attackers, also a black man, used a racial slur against him before the attack.

And among those arrested:

One of those arrested was Brian Matthews, 34, of St. Louis city, who works as a rehabber and previously worked on a campaign for a Texas statehouse candidate.

"I feel like it was a bull rush," Matthews said. "It all came from behind."

Matthews said he had been inside the forum because he is in favor of a public option for health care.

It is clearly time for sane Democrats to leave the party now, rather than be associated with these outrageous attacks on a black man.

 

[Piggy]

More thuggery at a townhall meeting:



And among those arrested:



It is clearly time for sane Democrats to leave the party now, rather than be associated with these outrageous attacks on a black man.

What's the Democratic Party saying about the incident?

ETA: For some reason, you don't seem to understand that the OP -- and as far as I can see, all other posts, too -- is not claiming that the mini-mobs are made up of Republicans. The objection is to the GOP response to the disruptions, when taken in the context of all the other wrong moves the party is making.

 

[tomwaits]

What's the Democratic Party saying about the incident?

ETA: For some reason, you don't seem to understand that the OP -- and as far as I can see, all other posts, too -- is not claiming that the mini-mobs are made up of Republicans. The objection is to the GOP response to the disruptions, when taken in the context of all the other wrong moves the party is making.

Well, Pelosi did say that they were Nazis...

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/vi...n_hall_protesters_are_carrying_swastikas.html

ETA: http://www.columbian.com/article/20090806/NEWS02/708069952

"What we're seeing right now is close to Brown Shirt tactics," Baird, D-Vancouver, said in a phone interview. "I mean that very seriously."

 

[Brainster]

What's the Democratic Party saying about the incident?

ETA: For some reason, you don't seem to understand that the OP -- and as far as I can see, all other posts, too -- is not claiming that the mini-mobs are made up of Republicans. The objection is to the GOP response to the disruptions, when taken in the context of all the other wrong moves the party is making.

.

Must be something in the tags on the post; GOP, hooliganism, mobs, that led me to believe that was what you decried. Perhaps you could point out some examples of the GOP leaders' response to the disruptions that you find inappropriate.

 

[BeAChooser]

Yes, I mean people exercising their Constitutional right to free speech... by disrupting meetings as an expressed political strategy.

You mean like when Code Pink tried to storm the stage at the GOP Convention during Palin's acceptance speech?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=23TWY-7sUZY

I don't recall hearing a single democrat or JREF leftist express outrage at such conduct. In fact, I don't even recall the mainstream Obama loving media telling the public about this act. So get off your high horse, Piggy.

 

[Piggy]

Well, Pelosi did say that they were Nazis...

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/vi...n_hall_protesters_are_carrying_swastikas.html

ETA: http://www.columbian.com/article/20090806/NEWS02/708069952

The whole swastika thing is bizarre, but of course the Democrats have it backward there -- those emblems aren't meant to represent the mini-mobsters, but rather to indict the Democrats as being some kind of fascists.

I can't get the 2nd link to work from where I am. I'll check back.

 

[Piggy]

.

Must be something in the tags on the post; GOP, hooliganism, mobs, that led me to believe that was what you decried. Perhaps you could point out some examples of the GOP leaders' response to the disruptions that you find inappropriate.

That's what you get for making conclusions based on a set of tags rather than actually reading what's posted.

And the NRCC position has been described and linked already, and discussed.

 

[Piggy]

You mean like when Code Pink tried to storm the stage at the GOP Convention during Palin's acceptance speech?

Yes, that's exactly the kind of thing I mean, as well as the single-payer advocates (left wing) disrupting a Finance Committee meeting so that police had to be called in.

 

[tomwaits]

I can't get the 2nd link to work from where I am. I'll check back.

It seems to work on and off.

Here's the relevant part:

Over 10 years in Congress, U.S. Rep. Brian Baird has stayed tethered to his district, flying back to Southwest Washington for more than 300 sometimes-bruising town hall meetings during Congressional recesses.

But this year, he's literally decided to phone it in.

Instead of appearing in person, where "extremists" would have "the chance to shout and make YouTube videos," Baird said Wednesday, he's holding what he calls "telephone town halls" instead.

Baird said he's using the new system because he fears his political opponents may be planning "an ambush" to disrupt his meetings, using methods Baird compared to Nazism.

"What we're seeing right now is close to Brown Shirt tactics," Baird, D-Vancouver, said in a phone interview. "I mean that very seriously."

The coming telephone conference call would be Baird's third this year.

His office used its Congressional allowance to buy the necessary software around the start of 2009, a spokesman said.

The rest is a description of how Baird will utilize the teleconference and a response by one of the protesters.

 

[Piggy]

ETA: http://www.columbian.com/article/20090806/NEWS02/708069952

Well, he's right that this is "close" to some of the mildest Brownshirt tactics from early on, but I don't think it was too savvy to have said that.

And this from one of the disrupters is classic irony:

"He's supposed to be our representative," said Benson, a purchasing manager for Portland Cascade Architecture and Engineering in Portland. "He's supposed to listen to us, whether he's on our side or not."

This from one of a group who won't listen to their representatives, and who prevent others from listening and speaking, who have no grasp of the issues (e.g., "Read the bill!" and "Socialism!"), and who say nothing productive when they do speak.

If they were civil, they could be listened to. But what does it mean to "listen to" volleys of shouting?

 

[MattusMaximus]

Wow, I really sympathize with you, Piggy. It is ironic that the people whom are fighting you the most in this thread are the ones within your own party.

Good luck.

 

[Ziggurat]

Wow, I really sympathize with you, Piggy. It is ironic that the people whom are fighting you the most in this thread are the ones within your own party.

No it isn't. Why would Democrats fight accusations against Republicans more than Republicans do? There's no irony involved. There is less irony than in Alanis Morissette's mislabelled song "Isn't it Ironic", excluding the unintentional meta-irony of the title.

 

[varwoche]

As a whole I find unblinking dogmatism far more prevalent on the left than on the right.

I have the opposite impression.

As a thought exercise, maybe we could design a little test of sorts. What do you say?

 

[Piggy]

I have the opposite impression.

As a thought exercise, maybe we could design a little test of sorts. What do you say?

I'd appreciate it if that were done on a separate thread. Thanks.