Sane Republicans should leave the party now

[Piggy]

.

Does that really work? The American people made it perfectly clear they opposed the stimulus bill, especially because of all the pork in it. Senators and House members ignored the people, and passed it anyway. Now we learn it did nothing but keep government functioning while the rest of the country flounders. People are not going to play nice if playing nice gets them nothing.

And what do you think the shouterazzi are going to accomplish?

 

[The Painter]

HELLOOOOOO!!!!!

None of these shenanigans took place when Bush, et. al. proposed the $700B TARP program. Nor when Obama extended it. Or bailed out the car industry. Or as unemployment went through the roof.

Nope, they're taking place as health care reform moves to a resolution. Those who opposed such action have the money to astroturf this operation and are pulling out all the stops because meaningful health care reform will be campaign superstar.

See 109.

It is a cumulative effect. Health care is the straw that breaks the camel's back. It's not so much politics as it is money. How is it going to be paid for? Obama has already said we don't have any money. Tax the rich? That won't last forever. It's like Margaret Thatcher said;

The trouble with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money

 

[The Painter]

And what do you think the shouterazzi are going to accomplish?

More than they have being the quietazzi. The only people getting their panties in a bunch are the lefties.

 

[Piggy]

More than they have being the quietazzi. The only people getting their panties in a bunch are the lefties.

Sorry?!

These people's panties seem to be tied into a Gordian knot.

No one's asking them to be silent.

It would help if they would be articulate and if they would participate instead of disrupt. They're acting like a bunch of '60s college radicals.

I ask you again, what do you think these folks are going to accomplish by disrupting town halls rather than participating in them or using other effective means to voice their opinions rather than simply shout people down and put a wrench in the works?

 

[Piggy]

It is a cumulative effect. Health care is the straw that breaks the camel's back. It's not so much politics as it is money. How is it going to be paid for?

Better question: How are we going to ensure that a good bill comes out of Congress which addresses these questions?

Disrupting town halls gets us not one inch down the road.

All it does is waste precious time that could be spent actually communicating with our elected representatives.

 

[Foolmewunz]

HELLOOOOOO!!!!!

Oh yeah you don't live here. Let me tell you, the economy sucks. Do you think people come out to these meetings when the economy is good??? Think again.

We've been through this before. I'm a taxpayer and voter and own property in New York City. I have a daughter in the work force as well as an ex-wife and numerous friends. I deal every day with the US economy. In fact, my position has me in touch with just about all of the top 50 retail and FMCG entities in the USA.

People come out to those meetings when their handlers tell them to. I saw Michelle M on the weekend news shows trying to spin this as "grass roots". Yeah, that worked so well for the Fox-sponsored Tea Bag Parties, so they're going to try it again. This is a grass roots movement like I'm a baton twiller.

 

[Foolmewunz]

More than they have being the quietazzi. The only people getting their panties in a bunch are the lefties.

Boo!

Traitor!


Tell the Truth!

Boo! Boo!

 

[The Painter]

Boo!

Traitor!


Tell the Truth!

Boo! Boo!

Hey, you're pretty good at that. Almost like you've done that before. Maybe in the 60's? Nixon? Viet Nam?

 

[The Painter]

Better question: How are we going to ensure that a good bill comes out of Congress which addresses these questions?

Well first, they could read it before they vote on it. Wow, what a concept. Then they could make it so they have to abide by the policy they pass and not exempt themselves as they have done now. Yes that's right members of the government will have their own special health plan. Much better than the one they will mandate for you. Is that fair?

 

[Skeptic]

And what do you think the shouterazzi are going to accomplish?

But I thought "dissent is the highest form of patriotism"?...

...oh wait, rude political dissent is a "highest form of patriotism" when we have mass meetings of folks carrying signs saying "BUSH = HITLER" or the equivalent.

When it's practiced by people saying "I disagree with Obama's policies", well... things are just different.

 

[KoihimeNakamura]

Oh, the straw. Did you bother to ask him if he opposed that? Did you consider he's a conservative?

No, of course not. Too hard. Just throw in some generic insults and scaremonger. Much better.

 

[Piggy]

Well first, they could read it before they vote on it. Wow, what a concept. Then they could make it so they have to abide by the policy they pass and not exempt themselves as they have done now. Yes that's right members of the government will have their own special health plan. Much better than the one they will mandate for you. Is that fair?

Read what? What do you want them to read, exactly? Please tell me specifically which document you want which specific people to read.

And please tell me exactly which provisions of what specific bill you wish these specific people not to be exempt from.

As far as Congress's health plan, I don't want it. I'm happy with mine and no one's currently threatening to take it away from me, thank you very much.

Full disclosure: I have a high deductible plan with an HSA. I was an early adopter of such plans.

 

[Piggy]

But I thought "dissent is the highest form of patriotism"?...

...oh wait, rude political dissent is a "highest form of patriotism" when we have mass meetings of folks carrying signs saying "BUSH = HITLER" or the equivalent.

When it's practiced by people saying "I disagree with Obama's policies", well... things are just different.

Folks carrying signs, hey, they can knock themselves out. Right or left, I don't care.

Folks disrupting town halls so that elected officials can't meet with constituents, that's mere hooliganism. Right or left, I don't care.

 

[Skeptic]

Folks disrupting town halls so that elected officials can't meet with constituents, that's mere hooliganism. Right or left, I don't care.

Oh REALLY? When they disturbed Republicans, they were "brave fighters" who are preventing the "racist warmongers" and their "brainwashed followers" for planning more acts of violence and oppression, as I recall.

 

[Foolmewunz]

Hey, you're pretty good at that. Almost like you've done that before. Maybe in the 60's? Nixon? Viet Nam?

Naah, if I ever went within three miles of Nixon, I'd have broken out in a rash.

Much better.....

Grant Park - Chicago

But you know what? We were demonstrating outside, not inside yelling to drown out the speakers. That was that bastion of liberty and free speech, Daley, who was trying to shout down speakers if I recall correctly. (There are Democratic idiots to go along with Republican idiots, see? This idiot problem is kind of a pandemic.)

 

[Foolmewunz]

Oh REALLY? When they disturbed Republicans, they were "brave fighters" who are preventing the "racist warmongers" and their "brainwashed followers" for planning more acts of violence and oppression, as I recall.

C'mon, you're smarter than this.

You very well know the difference between demonstrations and shouting down speakers so they can't be heard.

I'm an old veteran demonstrator. I never approved of the bunch that thought it was cute to drown out the speaker. It was a common happenstance at commencement exercises in the late 60s and early 70s. I was that guy (amongst quite a few) shouting, "Sit down and let him speak!"

 

[Piggy]

Oh REALLY? When they disturbed Republicans, they were "brave fighters" who are preventing the "racist warmongers" and their "brainwashed followers" for planning more acts of violence and oppression, as I recall.

Recall from where? Wherever you read that, sounds like mere propaganda. And who cares anyway? How is that relevant to whether or not its a good strategy for the NRCC to encourage these folks to disrupt town hall meetings?

 

[SezMe]

Well first, they could read it before they vote on it. Wow, what a concept.

Wow, indeed. They should not EVER rely on staff to analyze pending legislation. They should read every piece of crap resolution on the consent calendar. They should ignore outside expertise to provide insight.

JUST READ THE DAMN THING, YOU IDIOT!

Whew, now all the voting will go the right way. Thanks, Painter, that was easy.

 

[MattusMaximus]

I agree.

But how are they going to do it?

Sadly, Piggy, I don't think the current GOP leadership is up to taking their party back into sane waters. I voted for some Republicans in the 1990s, but ever since the GOP became so thoroughly beholden to the religious right I went over to the Democrats. And this current trend has further alienated me from what was once a respectable political party. I know of plenty of other people who have done likewise.

The leadership had a choice to make after the election, and they started moving away from the Palinista camp. But in the end, too many of the remaining seats were dependent on the so-called "base".

You can see it playing out right now with the vote changes on Sotomayor. Senators who know she's a restrained jurist simply can't vote for her. They're forced to denounce her for being an "activist" even though they know it's not true.

Exactly. Those politicians in the GOP won't stand up to the wingnuts. In fact, they are folding like a house of shaky cards whenever some wingnut group or talker says "boo."

In contrast, the White House is actively telling some liberal groups to back off putting undue pressure on Democratic politicians. Linky.

The Republican caucus opposed Specter and drove him to the Democrats, which with Franken put them at 60 (although that's more symbolic than anything else, given how fractured the Democratic caucus is).

Everyone who tried to criticize Limbaugh ended up having to apologize and kiss his ring, to the despair of moderates who were (and are) rightly horrified at a leadership so weak that they couldn't stand up to a radio talk show host. He became the symbolic leader of the party. Powell is just about the only one who dares to criticize Rush, and he's not in office.

It's turning into a circular firing squad.

Yup. And when they run out of ammo, it looks as if they're going to start hurling rocks at each other. It's just plain sad.

 

[MattusMaximus]

Something else I find interesting about this entire thread is the reaction by some conservatives here to Piggy's comments in the OP...

Piggy is, it seems, a longtime Republican who is going through a crisis in attempting to understand the direction of his party. He expressed his concerns and doubts, yet it's almost as if some of his own party members here are attacking him for even expressing those doubts in the first place.

Not a good recipe for reconciling and expanding the "Big Tent" (what a joke) of the Republican party.

The GOP has entered a period of purging "RINOs" in a quest for ideological purity, and we can even see it playing out on this very thread.

Sad