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Amway TV ad

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Your description of burn lounge pretty much sums up Amway as well. Amway has products to give the tools kingpins cover to do their business.

I can't believe you can't see that. It's the exact same kind of scam with slightly more legitimacy.
 
Tex2 said:
Newton, you're going over issues that have been addressed already, and you didn't respond. Without a tool scam, a much higher percentage of IBOs make a net profit, and those who aren't, are also not losing nearly as much. You're TOTALLY clueless. LOL
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It's true that getting scammed less is better than getting scammed more. But why fall for the scam at all?
 
I wouldn't recommend using "Newton" and "thinking" in the same sentence. LOL
 
What's with the ad hominems?

I laugh at your pathetic scamway "businesses". Losing money year after year isn't a business, it's a scam and a cult that keeps it going.
 
icerat said:
I have people in my downline who have ZERO downline, and they profit.
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Really? So they are really just reselling product to someone else and making money? How much do they profit?

Do you see their books?

One of the simplest defining marks between legitimate MLM and illegal pyramids is the answer to a theoretical question "can the last person who joins profit?"

If the answer is No, as you are claiming, then it isn't an MLM, it's an illegal pyramid.
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We agree. Show me someone who is making money purely by reselling the product or service in an MLM. Show me their books.
 
Cynical, what if they kept 2 sets of books, like Bernie Madoff? Now you should see why you asked a meaningless question. Of course these people probably have a few customers. They probably aren't making the "big bucks", but they are making more than most IBOs, who are getting ripped off via the tool scam. I also have a few customers, but it is meaningless to "show you my books." You either accept the FACT that some IBOs have customers or you don't. Your choice, but with a name like CynicalSkeptic, I think I know your answer. LOL
 
Or what if they're deluding themselves, convinced theyre making a little money when they really don't because they don't put all their costs (including time) in their books.
 
Or what if they're like you, deluding yourself, convinced you're making a little sense when you really don't because you don't respond to the points being made?
 
CynicalSkeptic said:
Or what if they're deluding themselves, convinced theyre making a little money when they really don't because they don't put all their costs (including time) in their books.
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In fact this is the position that I think a lot of amway distributors are in. They have a warped view of profit which can include things like "I get a writeoff on my taxes" which is just a way of justifying a loss. In fact many of them use the loss in their business to offset other income taxes costing all legit taxpayers money. The IRS has gone after some of the blatant cases for back taxes.

Anyway given the time investment it takes to find retail customers I highly doubt most distributors make much retail profit. Even if they are really hustling and doing well it's still going to be time intensive to build that customer base and your return per $ isn't going to be good. I would love to be proven wrong on that... with a real businesses P/L statement.
 
Tex2 said:
Cynical, what if they kept 2 sets of books, like Bernie Madoff? Now you should see why you asked a meaningless question. Of course these people probably have a few customers. They probably aren't making the "big bucks", but they are making more than most IBOs, who are getting ripped off via the tool scam. I also have a few customers, but it is meaningless to "show you my books." You either accept the FACT that some IBOs have customers or you don't. Your choice, but with a name like CynicalSkeptic, I think I know your answer. LOL
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Tex2 said:
Or what if they're like you, deluding yourself, convinced you're making a little sense when you really don't because you don't respond to the points being made?
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What points did I not respond to?

Ok, I accept that some people in Amway do resell some products to others (just look on ebay for all the MLM garbage being sold below cost), and some might even sell for a profit. But without seeing actual numbers, I don't believe that many are making enough to quit their day jobs, or we'd all be seeing these products in Brick & Mortar retail stores.

The real money in Amway and any other MLM (if we ignore the Tool Scam) is in recruiting people below you and profiting from their purchases. Yes, some people will make money from that, those at the top of the pyramid. It's no better than a lottery, a redistribution of the money that people put in. If you're on top of the pyramid, you're samming those below you. If you're on the bottom, you're getting scammed. If you're in the middle, and breaking even or making a small profit, you're hoping to rise to the top soon.

Tex & Icerat, why are you so afraid to show your books?

How much are you making?

How much is from retail sales?

How much is from commissions off your downline?

What is your churn? How many people do you recruit each month? How many leave?

How much are they (people in your downline) making/losing?
 
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icerat said:
The margins on the actual products (downloadable music) is way to small to be able to cover the expenses of generating the sales.
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If this is true of Amway, then it is only because of the inflated prices. The costco/amway vitamin comparison upthread was pretty damning. So, people outside the pyramid don't tend to buy Amway stuff since it's so overpriced to support the MLM structure.

Which is why MLM = fail, unless you have a large downline, which doesn't work for everyone in the business because of the multiplier effect.
 
I find it rich that the guys on here defending scamway are the suckers who don't even make any money at it. Can you guys at least go and find some successful distributors to come and tell us that they actually make money doing this? Bonus points for someone who is profitable without tools income (ROTFLMAO).
 
Newton, I don't advocate making most profit from personal retailing. If an IBO wants to run their business that way, it's okay with me.

Cynical, you can start here: http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=116252&page=15 It is obvious you are not aware of Amway rules prohibiting product sales in stores, at least in the U.S.

You said, "The real money in Amway and any other MLM (if we ignore the Tool Scam) is in recruiting people below you and profiting from their purchases. Yes, some people will make money from that, those at the top of the pyramid." That's how MLM works. The idea is to work yourself to the top of the "pyramid", if you want to do that. There is no scamming going on with this model (minus the tool scam), it is merely monetarily rewarding those who have been responsible for more volume more than those who have been responsible for less volume. It's called CAPITALISM. If you don't like it, move somewhere else...or re-elect Barry.

You want details? Make the phone call.

Almo, comparing Double X to Costco vitamins is like saying a Yugo is the same as a Bentley, as they both have 4 wheels. LOL

I met a guy in Prague who makes a LOT of money from retail. I won't give his name, because he doesn't want to be sullied on forums like this, and I don't blame him. Icerat/ibofb met him as well.
 
Tex2 said:
You said, "The real money in Amway and any other MLM (if we ignore the Tool Scam) is in recruiting people below you and profiting from their purchases. Yes, some people will make money from that, those at the top of the pyramid." That's how MLM works. The idea is to work yourself to the top of the "pyramid", if you want to do that. There is no scamming going on with this model (minus the tool scam), it is merely monetarily rewarding those who have been responsible for more volume more than those who have been responsible for less volume. It's called CAPITALISM.
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No, that's not capitalism, that's a pyramid scam.

Tex2 said:
I met a guy in Prague who makes a LOT of money from retail. I won't give his name, because he doesn't want to be sullied on forums like this, and I don't blame him. Icerat/ibofb met him as well.
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Wonderful unsubstantiated claim.

How much are you making? No, I'm not gonna call, and listen to your pitch. How much are you making?
 
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CynicalSkeptic, you are clueless as well. How can a scam happen if every single IBO pays less for their product (after the varying bonus amount is considered) than a customer paying IBO cost?

You won't accept an unsubstantiated claim, yet you want an unsubstantiated claim regarding my own retail volume? QED LOL

Ask Newton whether I "pitched" him on our earlier phone call.

Newton, you want details? Make another call.
 
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