Travolta might have seen the light....


I'll see your proof, and I'll raise you a proof:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elli_Perkins

Of course, Scientologists now say that Wikipedia is biased against them, due to the banning any further edits from Scientology IP addresses, and that Jeremy Perkins was never a Scientologist, but we know that's not true:

http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/JeremyPerkins/CoverUp/
http://www.truthaboutscientology.com/stats/by-name/j/jeremy-perkins.html
 
For those who may be interested, Children's Healthcare Is a Legal Duty (CHILD, Inc.) is a non-profit national membership organization established in 1983 to protect children from abusive religious and cultural practices, especially religion-based medical neglect. CHILD opposes religious exemptions from duties of care for children such as those of the Christian Science church, and actively supports state legislation to protect children in need of professional and accredited medical treatment rather than only faith based prayer support. CHILD is a member of the National Child Abuse Coalition. I have been a member since the 1980's when the founder of CHILD spoke at a CSICOP (now CSI) conference in Buffalo, N.Y. See the CHILD website at http://www.childrenshealthcare.org/
 
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For those who may be interested, Children's Healthcare Is a Legal Duty (CHILD, Inc.) is a non-profit national membership organization established in 1983 to protect children from abusive religious and cultural practices, especially religion-based medical neglect. CHILD opposes religious exemptions from duties of care for children such as those of the Christian Science church, and actively supports state legislation to protect children in need of professional and accredited medical treatment rather than only faith based prayer support. CHILD is a member of the National Child Abuse Coalition. I have been a member since the 1980's when the founder of CHILD spoke at a CSICOP (now CSI) conference in Buffalo, N.Y. See the CHILD website at http://www.childrenshealthcare.org/

Looks like an organization with a noble purpose.

I must admit my eyebrows go up when the topic of forcing parents to make their children submit to medical treatments comes up. (I should say I'm not sure what a good answer is to the problems this organization is attempting to address.)

I do however get concerned when it comes to forcing children to take harmful medications or undergo other harmful treatments. Florida is in the midst of some serious problems with the outrageous levels of drugs being prescribed to foster kids.

This is one of the reasons I work so hard so I can afford to send my children to a private school. I am less concerned with a teacher reporting my child as in need of "treatment" because they are hyperactive or some other label. I'd sure hate for some doctor to say my kids need to be put on ritalin and then have a court force me to make my kid take those meds, or worse.

But still, those issues aside, I agree its a tricky problem.
 
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It's not a question of "forcing" but rather protecting children's rights and eliminating state legislation which may protect parents or religious bodies from eliminating proper medical options. The Christian Science church uses staff who do not have proper medical certifications or modern treatment skills. I personally feel that their medical procedures are just one step out of the dark ages --- but they certainly spend a great deal on lobbying to protect such "treatments" --- a reasonable sign that their members lack modern education in the sciences from accredited schools.
 
It's not a question of "forcing" but rather protecting children's rights and eliminating state legislation which may protect parents or religious bodies from eliminating proper medical options. The Christian Science church uses staff who do not have proper medical certifications or modern treatment skills. I personally feel that their medical procedures are just one step out of the dark ages --- but they certainly spend a great deal on lobbying to protect such "treatments" --- a reasonable sign that their members lack modern education in the sciences from accredited schools.

I know next to nothing about Christian Science so can't really comment on what they do or don't do.

Just to make sure I understand your post - So the goal is to get legislation repealed that currently protects parents/religious groups when they eliminate proper medical options for their children? Or in other words when a parent/religious group refuses to let their children be treated by a doctor there is currently legislation that protects this? What is it as I am unfamiliar with this law?
 
I don't know what the church's offical viewpoint on this question is. I'm not sure it has one. There are a lot of places where Ron mentions psychiatric treatments and that they haven't one single cure on their books.

A great deal of progress has been made in the 30 years since L.R. Hubbard's death.

But that's hardly noteworthy as many a psychiatrist will agree they don't cure anything as well.

A topic deserving of another thread; but I strongly disagree with your assertion. I also find it hard to believe that the church has no official position on psychiatry and psychiatric drugs.
 
A great deal of progress has been made in the 30 years since L.R. Hubbard's death.

A topic deserving of another thread; but I strongly disagree with your assertion. I also find it hard to believe that the church has no official position on psychiatry and psychiatric drugs.

Mr. Hubbard passed in 1986. What "great deal of progress" are you referring to?

Just ask a few psychiatrists if they have ever cured anything. This isn't hard to verify.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vgKp6_QRNgk

(Of course since this is a video provided by CCHR, a group sponsored by Scientologists, I'm sure its content is will be questioned.)

The church has policies on psychiatry and psychiatric drugs of course. I don't know if it has any position on the percentage question you were asking. (see quote below.)

Ladewig - O.K. Then which of the following (if any) best describes your viewpoint of using medications to treat mental illness:

1) the majority of patients are helped
2) perhaps half the patients are helped
3) only a minority patients are helped
4) only a very small minority of patients are helped
5) so few patients are helped that twenty-first century psychiatry should not be a considered a branch of medicine.
Scientologists don't take psychiatric medications nor are they treated by psychiatrists.

I think the Code of a Scientologist and the Creed of Scientology may answer your question regarding the churches official position:

http://www.whatisscientology.org/html/Part14/Chp40/pg0735-c.html

Code of a Scientologist

1 To keep Scientologists, the public and the press accurately informed concerning Scientology, the world of mental health and society.

2 To use the best I know of Scientology to the best of my ability to help my family, friends, groups and the world.

3 To refuse to accept for processing and to refuse to accept money from any preclear or group I feel I cannot honestly help.

4 To decry and do all I can to abolish any and all abuses against life and mankind.

5 To expose and help abolish any and all physically damaging practices in the field of mental health.

6 To help clean up and keep clean the field of mental health.

7 To bring about an atmosphere of safety and security in the field of mental health by eradicating its abuses and brutality.

8 To support true humanitarian endeavors in the fields of human rights.

9 To embrace the policy of equal justice for all.

10 To work for freedom of speech in the world.

11 To actively decry the suppression of knowledge, wisdom, philosophy or data which would help mankind.

12 To support the freedom of religion.

13 To help Scientology orgs and groups ally themselves with public groups.

14 To teach Scientology at a level it can be understood and used by the recipients.

15 To stress the freedom to use Scientology as a philosophy in all its applications and variations in the humanities.

16 To insist upon standard and unvaried Scientology as an applied activity in ethics, processing and administration in Scientology organizations.

17 To take my share of responsibility for the impact of Scientology upon the world.

18 To increase the numbers and strength of Scientology over the world.

19 To set an example of the effectiveness and wisdom of Scientology.

20 To make this world a saner, better place.


http://www.scientology.org/world/worldeng/corp/creed.htm

Creed of Scientology

We of the Church believe:

That all men of whatever race, color, or creed were created with equal rights;

That all men have inalienable rights to their own religious practices and their performance;

That all men have inalienable rights to their own lives;

That all men have inalienable rights to their sanity;

That all men have inalienable rights to their own defense;

That all men have inalienable rights to conceive, choose, assist or support their own organizations, churches and governments;

That all men have inalienable rights to think freely, to talk freely, to write freely their own opinions and to counter or utter or write upon the opinions of others;

That all men have inalienable rights to the creation of their own kind;

That the souls of men have the rights of men;

That the study of the mind and the healing of mentally caused ills should not be alienated from religion or condoned in non-religious fields;

And that no agency less than God has the power to suspend or set aside these rights, overtly or covertly.

And we of the Church believe:

That man is basically good;

That he is seeking to survive;

That his survival depends upon himself and upon his fellows and his attainment of brotherhood with the universe.

And we of the Church believe that the laws of God forbid man:

To destroy his own kind;

To destroy the sanity of another;

To destroy or enslave another's soul;

To destroy or reduce the survival of one's companions or one's group.

And we of the Church believe that the spirit can be saved and that the spirit alone may save or heal the body.
 
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I don't know what the church's offical viewpoint on this question is. I'm not sure it has one. There are a lot of places where Ron mentions psychiatric treatments and that they haven't one single cure on their books. But that's hardly noteworthy as many a psychiatrist will agree they don't cure anything as well.

Well, it took only a few minutes to find out that the church does indeed have a viewpoint on psychiatry. With literature titled "Psychiatry - the Ultimate Betrayal" and "Psychiatrists – the Men Behind Hitler," on its website, it seems rather safe to say that CoS is against the field of psychiatry.

"Not sure it has one" Riiiiiiight.
 
I posted number 68 before I read this response.

Mr. Hubbard passed in 1986. What "great deal of progress" are you referring to?

I am referring to the latest generations of drugs designed to treat mental illnesses.
 
It occurred to me that CCHR (Citizens Commission on Human Rights) does have official positions on the subject.

More can be found on this at www.cchr.org
 
Well, it took only a few minutes to find out that the church does indeed have a viewpoint on psychiatry. With literature titled "Psychiatry - the Ultimate Betrayal" and "Psychiatrists – the Men Behind Hitler," on its website, it seems rather safe to say that CoS is against the field of psychiatry.

"Not sure it has one" Riiiiiiight.

Oh, there definitely is one, and has been one, straight from Hubbard's pen, since 1969:

HCO Bulletin of 2 April 1969 said:
There is a conflict between Dianetics and political practices such as psychiatry since electric shock, brain operations and general degradation of the person may prevent the patient's recovery by Dianetics.

As answers exist now for insanity there is no reason to continue Medieval or
Fascist solutions to the problem of the psychosomatically ill or the insane and we are doing everything in our power against fantastic opposition to end the torture and killing of the insane regardless of the politically "desirable" ends envisioned by some groups.

Dianetics, like any other true treatment, like aspirin or penicillin, was originally
designed to handle the apparent basic cause of psychosomatic illness.

So, in short, mental illness is purely psychosomatic.
 
I don't know what the church's offical viewpoint on this question is. I'm not sure it has one. There are a lot of places where Ron mentions psychiatric treatments and that they haven't one single cure on their books. But that's hardly noteworthy as many a psychiatrist will agree they don't cure anything as well.

Many a psychiatrist would also argue that 'cure' is not the same as 'successful treatment', which has been achieved in documented cases for quite some time now. Did Mr. Hubbard make that concession, or just dismiss all psychiatric treatment on the 'no cure' basis?

Is autism classified by the CoS as a "mental illness"?
 
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I think the Code of a Scientologist and the Creed of Scientology may answer your question regarding the churches official position:

The publicaly stated offical positions of the church of scientology have never been consistent withs it's behaviour.
 
Well, it took only a few minutes to find out that the church does indeed have a viewpoint on psychiatry. With literature titled "Psychiatry - the Ultimate Betrayal" and "Psychiatrists – the Men Behind Hitler," on its website, it seems rather safe to say that CoS is against the field of psychiatry.

"Not sure it has one" Riiiiiiight.

I thought you were referring to percentages. Those books are not part of our scriptures as they weren't authored by Mr. Hubbard. I'm sure its no real secret that Scientologists are against the many harmful abuses and practices of Psychiatry. I'm just not sure what you mean by an "Official Position". Though there may be something else to look at which could answer your question contained in enrollment agreements one signs to partake of services. Its been years since I've bothered reading them (they are quite long) but I'm sure there are "official positions" in there but I do not know if they address percentages.

So just to make sure there is no understanding: When you ask for an official position are you asking about church policies re psychiatrict treatment, what Mr. Hubbard has to say on the subject, what the average Scientologist thinks or an announcement made on the subject by a Scientology spokesman.

Here is something taken from our site that probably could be accepted as "official".

This seems pretty clear.

http://www.whatisscientology.org/html/Part12/Chp36/pg0670-b.html?locale=en_US



[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, Sans-serif]Why is Scientology opposed to psychiatric abuses?[/FONT]

As the stepchildren of the German dictator Bismarck and later Hitler and the Nazis, psychiatry and psychology formed the philosophical basis for the wholesale slaughter of human beings in World Wars I and II. Psychiatry uses electric shock, brain-mutilating psychosurgery and mind-damaging drugs to destroy a person and make him “docile and quiet” in the name of “treatment.”
Psychiatric methods involving the butchering of human beings and their sanity are condemned by the Church. Scientologists are trying to create a world without war, insanity and criminality. Psychiatry is seeking to create a world where man is reduced to a robotized or drugged, vegetable-like state so that he can be controlled.
Scientologists do not believe that psychiatrists should tell their patients what they think is wrong with them. This interjects lies or ideas which are not true for the individual himself, thereby violating his basic integrity. Scientologists believe that one should find out for himself the source of his troubles since this gives him the ability to improve conditions in his own life and environment.
Scientology and psychiatry will always be working at cross-purposes. Scientology is a religion and recognizes that man is a spiritual being. Psychiatrists view man as an animal. Psychiatry is strongly opposed to all religions as it does not even recognize that man is a spiritual being.
Scientologists disagree with the enforced and harmful psychiatric methods of involuntary commitment, forced and heavy drugging, electroconvulsive shock treatment, lobotomy and other psychosurgical operations.
By the Creed of the Church of Scientology, the healing of mentally caused ills should not be condoned in nonreligious fields. The reason for this is that violent psychiatric therapies cause spiritual trauma. At best, psychiatry suppresses life’s problems; at worst, it causes severe damage, irreversible setbacks in a person’s life and even death.

Further non-Scientological references:

Mad in America by Robert Whitaker
Toxic Psychiatry by Peter Breggin (He has other books as well.)
The Nazi Doctors: Medical Killing and the Psychology of Genocide by Robert Jay Lifton.

There are others but I don't have my list in front of me.
 
Though there may be something else to look at which could answer your question contained in enrollment agreements one signs to partake of services.

What OT level are you?
 
I'm sure its no real secret that Scientologists are against the many harmful abuses and practices of Psychiatry. I'm just not sure what you mean by an "Official Position".


This isn't an official position?
fredcarr said:
Scientologists don't take psychiatric medications nor are they treated by psychiatrists.
 
Many a psychiatrist would also argue that 'cure' is not the same as 'successful treatment', which has been achieved in documented cases for quite some time now. Did Mr. Hubbard make that concession, or just dismiss all psychiatric treatment on the 'no cure' basis?

Is autism classified by the CoS as a "mental illness"?

I don't even know if Autism is even mentioned in any of our works. (Mind you I haven't read everything but in thirty years I don't remember coming across the term. I sure hope its not in one of the books I've just read!)

I think I remember a comment in a media site stating that a spokesperson for the church said we don't diagnosis such things, but I can't find it.

Personally I don't know what it is, what the cure for it is and if its solely a medical condition, mental condition or a combination of both. I simply don't know. From the little research that I have done it seems to be the consensus that their is no cure for it. But again I really know next to nothing and haven't heard one way or the other from any Scientologist. (Not that what they would have to say on it would have any bearing on my own evaluation of the subject.)
 
desertgal - Mr. Hubbard said a lot of things about psychiatry. Far too numerous to quote here. At times in his writings and lectures he has been quite savage on the subject and other times hopeful that they would clean up shop and do a better job of taking care of the insane. (Hard to see that happening any time soon with such strong financial ties to the pharmaceutical industry.)
 
I posted number 68 before I read this response.



I am referring to the latest generations of drugs designed to treat mental illnesses.
Ahh - got it. Thought that's what you were refrring to but I wasn't sure.

I guess time will tell on this one.
 
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This isn't an official position?

Jeez I don't know. I guess so if were using this definition of "position" - 6. A point of view or attitude on a certain question.

Then sure - the "position" of all Scientologists (one of the agreements that binds us together as a group) is we don't take psychiatric medications/treatments. I still don't know what is meant by "Offical position" however but I think I've already quoted plenty that should answer that in any case.

I just wanted to add how pleasant discussing things on this thread has been compared to some of the posters and threads I have had to deal with in the past. (That ignore feature sure comes in handy!)
 
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