POTUS Obama Says Cops Who Arrested Gates "Acted Stupidly" Vs Nixon's "Manson Guilty"

[Cicero]

Let's reread what you posted:



The police report doesn't rehabilitate the testimony just because it says the same thing. If the cop testifies to something, and then the defense suggests that, for example, this is a recent fabrication, the police report can come in to show that the cop isn't changing his story, he's been saying this from day one. But if the cop testifies to something, and the defense suggests that he has a motivation to lie that existed all along, then the police report proves nothing at all, and wouldn't be admissible for rehabilitation or anything.

1) The police report would be admissible to a grand jury
2) The hilited portion is a way for the report to come in, and mostly likely would have occurred.
3) Now that we have audio tapes of the incident, the report is moot.

 

[linusrichard]

1) The police report would be admissible to a grand jury

Which is not relevant to what I said, since I said trial.

2) The hilited portion is a way for the report to come in, and mostly likely would have occurred.

And I say it most likely would not have occurred. But either way, the fact remains that police reports are generally not admissible in a criminal trial.

3) Now that we have audio tapes of the incident, the report is moot.

The report is moot, but my original point, which is that the police report is just one person's account of what happened, and not necessarily any more trustworthy than any other, and, you know, there's a reason they aren't generally admissible in a criminal trial, still stands.

Thanks for chatting about it, though.

 

[Cicero]

Which is not relevant to what I said, since I said trial.

And I say it most likely would not have occurred. But either way, the fact remains that police reports are generally not admissible in a criminal trial.

The report is moot, but my original point, which is that the police report is just one person's account of what happened, and not necessarily any more trustworthy than any other, and, you know, there's a reason they aren't generally admissible in a criminal trial, still stands.

Thanks for chatting about it, though.

If you have gone to trial for a moving violation, you would see that the judge does indeed place a great deal of trust in the police officer and their personal account. If you believe that in a criminal court this is any less true of the judge and, or, jury, whether the report is admitted as evidence or not, then you have seen too many LA trials.

 

[linusrichard]

If you have gone to trial for a moving violation, you would see that the judge does indeed place a great deal of trust in the police officer and their personal account.

I know this is true from experience (not as a defendant, fortunately!). But I wonder what it has to do with police reports...

If you believe that in a criminal court this is any less true of the judge and, or, jury, whether the report is admitted as evidence or not, then you have seen too many LA trials.

You seem to be thinking that I'm saying something that I'm not saying.

 

[Cicero]

I know this is true from experience (not as a defendant, fortunately!). But I wonder what it has to do with police reports...

A ticket is a police report.

You seem to be thinking that I'm saying something that I'm not saying.

If you didn't say that a cop's powers of observation as recorded in his official report and related from memory are NOT given superior credence as opposed to a citizen's account, then maybe I did.

 

[Tricky]

I need to pull out my old copy of Amos and Andrew.

Al Sharpton has to be the Kingfisher!

No, not the old radio/tv show. This one. It didn't get great reviews, but I always thought it was very funny, and now, prophetic.

 

[Cicero]

No, not the old radio/tv show. This one. It didn't get great reviews, but I always thought it was very funny, and now, prophetic.

Prophetic? How does Lucia Whale, the circulation and fundraising manager at Harvard Magazine, remind you of a "biggoted police chief" from a flick that grossed $6 mil?

 

[JoeTheJuggler]

But his good friend Gates did.

You're confusing the issue (or simply being evasive). I thought we were talking about Obama's comments:

Refreshing? Had Obama been more circumspect, he wouldn't now be inviting the "racist" cop to the White House. The POTUS needs to exercise caution when exercising his 1st Amendment rights, especially when speaking as POTUS about an incident that involves a personal friend. The Executive doesn't have authority over the police department.

 

[Cicero]

You're confusing the issue (or simply being evasive). I thought we were talking about Obama's comments:

No confusion. The POTUS invited to the White House a police officer who is considered to be a racist by his good friend Gates. When Obama gave what you believed to be the non PC "acted stupidly" comment, was Obama not sempatico with his friend's version of the event?

 

[Cicero]

Why did POTUS Obama choose to comment on racial profiling when it was Lucia Whalen, is circulation and fundraising manager at Harvard Magazine, who called the police about the supposed break-in, and she never even mention the race of the guys she saw?

 

[slingblade]

Why did POTUS Obama choose to comment on racial profiling when it was Lucia Whalen, is circulation and fundraising manager at Harvard Magazine, who called the police about the supposed break-in, and she never even mention the race of the guys she saw?

The Gates quagmire began shortly after lunch on July 16 when Whalen, a 40-year-old fund-raiser for Harvard magazine, saw from her office window what appeared to be two suspicious men trying to break in to Gates' house.

According to the police report, Whalen said she "observed what appeared to be two black males with backpacks on the porch" about 12:45 p.m.

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/2009/07/26/2009-07-26_she_called_cops__now_shes_lying_low.html

I bolded the pertinent part, so you couldn't miss it this time.
How inconvenient for your argument.

 

[Cicero]

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/2009/07/26/2009-07-26_she_called_cops__now_shes_lying_low.html

I bolded the pertinent part, so you couldn't miss it this time.
How inconvenient for your argument.

Really? All of sudden you find Crowley credible when the Daily News quotes him?

"The 911 caller who reported a possible break-in at the home of black Harvard scholar Henry Louis Gates Jr. did not mention race in the call, according to a statement issued by her attorney and backed up by Cambridge Police Commissioner Robert Haas."

Contrary to published reports that a 'white woman' called 911 and reported seeing 'two black men' trying to gain entry into Mr. Gates home, the woman, who has olive colored skin and is of Portuguese descent, told the 911 operator that she observed 'two men' at the home," Murphy's statement read.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2009/07/27/national/main5190309.shtml

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/32169213/ns/us_news-race_and_ethnicity/

When the 911 tapes are released in a few days one of us will be sporting an omelet on their mug.

 

[linusrichard]

When the 911 tapes are released in a few days one of us will be sporting an omelet on their mug.

Why don't you read the police report? Nobody's saying she said they were black on the 911 tapes, so obviously the 911 tapes aren't going to place egg anywhere.

 

[Cicero]

Why don't you read the police report? Nobody's saying she said they were black on the 911 tapes, so obviously the 911 tapes aren't going to place egg anywhere.

Perhaps you should talk to Slingblade. I said Whalen never mentioned race when she CALLED the police. Slingblade then swings in on a knotted rope to save the day by posting the Daily News story that neglects this salient fact from the article. Where did I mention police report in my post that Slingblade failed to undermine?

BTW: By the time the cops took the report, they already knew Gates was black. So how does what she says at the scene makes this a case of police racial profiling?

 

[linusrichard]

Perhaps you should talk to Slingblade. I said Whalen never mentioned race when she CALLED the police.

No you didn't. Maybe that's what you meant, but you said she never mentioned race.

Slingblade then swings in on a knotted rope to save the day by posting the Daily News story that neglects this salient fact from the article. Where did I mention police report in my post that Slingblade failed to undermine?

You didn't mention police report. You said "Why did POTUS Obama choose to comment on racial profiling when it was Lucia Whalen, is circulation and fundraising manager at Harvard Magazine, who called the police about the supposed break-in, and she never even mention the race of the guys she saw?"
Now, if you meant that she didn't mention it in the 911 call, and were just being careless, that's fine. But don't blame me or Slingblade for thinking you meant what you said.

BTW: By the time the cops took the report, they already knew Gates was black. So how does what she says at the scene makes this a case of police racial profiling?

Because in the police report (if you trust the police report, and you've indicated that you think police reports are trustworthy), she tells the cop the race of the guy before they make contact with him. Which is why I said, "Why don't you read the police report?"

I'm not saying this was racial profiling. But you seem to be saying that it can't be racial profiling because the cops didn't know the guy's race before they saw him, and they did.

 

[Cicero]

No you didn't. Maybe that's what you meant, but you said she never mentioned race.

You didn't mention police report. You said "Why did POTUS Obama choose to comment on racial profiling when it was Lucia Whalen, is circulation and fundraising manager at Harvard Magazine, who called the police about the supposed break-in, and she never even mention the race of the guys she saw?"
Now, if you meant that she didn't mention it in the 911 call, and were just being careless, that's fine. But don't blame me or Slingblade for thinking you meant what you said.

Because in the police report (if you trust the police report, and you've indicated that you think police reports are trustworthy), she tells the cop the race of the guy before they make contact with him. Which is why I said, "Why don't you read the police report?"

I'm not saying this was racial profiling. But you seem to be saying that it can't be racial profiling because the cops didn't know the guy's race before they saw him, and they did.

So why did POTUS Obama use this incident to bring up racial profiling?

Crowley was already at Gate's front door when Whalen signaled him to come over. He would have discovered that Gate's was black when Gates answered the door. So the cop is already on the scene and on his way into the house with no knowledge of Gate's race before Whalen, according to the police report, gives the description as "two black males with backpacks."

 

[Skeptic]

Gates made a stupid mistake by acting like an ass. Obama made a stupid mistake by noting this incident at all, let alone declaring the police were "wrong" -- even if he had know all the facts it is just not the POTUS' job to comment on such issues, certainly not if he doesn't, as he admitted. The police officer acted like an ass for throwing the book at Gates instead of ignoring his idiotic comments.

However, Obama did a cool thing thing by inviting both Gates and the officer for a beer in the white house to smooth things over, and both the officer and Gates did the right thing in accepting and, with all probability, willing to make up and put this incident behind them.

If you're going to eat crow, as all three seem to need, it's best to eat it while it's fresh; the older it is, the harder it gets to swallow.

 

[critterrice]

Nixon??? People lambasted Nixon because he was a criminal!
Let me tell you something, come closer... closer... WATERGATE!
I hate it when people try to compare Apples and A-holes.

 

[Cicero]

Nixon??? People lambasted Nixon because he was a criminal!
Let me tell you something, come closer... closer... WATERGATE!
I hate it when people try to compare Apples and A-holes.

Watergate was two years after Nixon's comment on Manson's guilt while the trial was in progress. It turns out that both POTUS Obama and Nixon were criticized for their comments. While Nixon was correct that Manson was indeed guilty, Obama was incorrect that the Crowley/Gates incident had anything to do with racial profiling.

 

[JoeTheJuggler]

He did insinuate that the officers were racist:



If he did really believe that it was 'seperate and apart from this incident' then he wouldn't have brought it up in response to the case.

That doesn't follow. The accusation of racism or racial profiling came from Gates. I think it's reasonable for Obama to use the incident as a segway to the topic of racial profiling.

By the way, in case it hasn't been mentioned, there is a study on racial and gender profiling in Massachussetts. The Cambridge police don't come off so well, even though the report phrases its conclusions carefully:

Although the Massachusetts data does not allow for definitive findings of racial profiling on the part of individual officers orwithin a department, it does identify those jurisdictions with substantial racial or gender disparities in traffic citations.