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Canadian Heathcare system sucks!!

ponderingturtle said:
You are wrong, the companies bill per trip even thought the staff is paid by the hour.

On another note, tipping is apreciated.
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I think Matthew is specifically talking about the NHS ambulance service. The staff are employees, working set hours for a set pay scale. Nobody bills anybody. I have no idea how ambulance staff would react to being tipped, but I suspect possibly outraged, or maybe just deeply embarrassed.

Rolfe.
 
Rolfe said:
[Digression. I told in another thread of reading about an English woman who was stupid enough to visit the USA without taking out health insurance. During her short stay she suffered a heart attack. She received high quality care, but also a bill to match. She had to pay out all her savings and then sell her home, and ended up homeless and dependent on the British state. US posters reading this story said she was doubly a fool because she should simply have welshed on the debt, that was how it was done in the USA. But I can't see how that's possible - if you have assets such as a house, surely you can be pursued through the courts for the money?]
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THe problem was that she had assets and no insurance. Medical care is a major reason behind bankruptcy in the US. SHe had assets for them to go after so there you go.
 
Rolfe said:
I think Matthew is specifically talking about the NHS ambulance service. The staff are employees, working set hours for a set pay scale. Nobody bills anybody. I have no idea how ambulance staff would react to being tipped, but I suspect possibly outraged, or maybe just deeply embarrassed.

Rolfe.
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Are all ambulances in Britian public or are there private ambulances to say take you from a nursing home to another nursing home 100 miles away?
 
ponderingturtle said:
Are all ambulances in Britian public or are there private ambulances to say take you from a nursing home to another nursing home 100 miles away?
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I'm honestly not sure about that sort of requirement. I suspect that if you're sick enough to need an actual ambulance, you qualify for an NHS one. But there may well be private companies specialising in that sort of patient transfer.

You won't find a private ambulance answering an emergency call though.

And I just remembered. The vehicles with "Private Ambulance" painted on the side are actually the hearses they use to transport bodies from the scene of death to the morgue.

Rolfe.
 
Can't think of anything wrong with private companies running ambulances, even emergency ones under the control of the NHS & emergencies services. Have to say I would be surprised if they could offer the same service as a standard NHS emergency ambulance at the same, never mind less, cost to the NHS.
 
Rolfe said:
I'm honestly not sure about that sort of requirement. I suspect that if you're sick enough to need an actual ambulance, you qualify for an NHS one. But there may well be private companies specialising in that sort of patient transfer.
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The thing is what about people who need an ambulance but not a hospital? There is need for non emergency ambulance service.

In NY at least the only vehicals allowed to transport people in a streatcher are ambulances. So if someone can not sit in a wheelchair they have to be moved by ambulance.

So there are lots of ambulances picking people up at home, taking them to the doctors and bringing them back at the end. And this is covered at least sometimes by insurance.
 
Darat said:
Can't think of anything wrong with private companies running ambulances, even emergency ones under the control of the NHS & emergencies services. Have to say I would be surprised if they could offer the same service as a standard NHS emergency ambulance at the same, never mind less, cost to the NHS.
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Depends. In the US they do it by simply paying the employees much less especialy in benefits. THe difference between being a civil servant with a pension and a private employee.

Figure $10 and hour to start is not considered bad in the NYC area.
 
ponderingturtle said:
Depends. In the US they do it by simply paying the employees much less especialy in benefits. THe difference between being a civil servant with a pension and a private employee.

Figure $10 and hour to start is not considered bad in the NYC area.
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I assume that's for non-emergency ambulances?

(And remember in the UK there is no need to offer "heath care benefits" as part of the renumeration package so NHS ambulance staff and non-NHS ambulance staff will have the same health-care benefits.)
 
Darat said:
I assume that's for non-emergency ambulances?
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Not nessacarily.

A lot of emergency service is done by private companies who have a contract with the municipality. It is cheaper than running their own ambulance after all.

(And remember in the UK there is no need to offer "heath care benefits" as part of the renumeration package so NHS ambulance staff and non-NHS ambulance staff will have the same health-care benefits.)
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And benefits is a broad term, it includes things like sick time and vacation.
 
Everytime I flip on CNN or Fox News there's that ad playing with the woman who had a brain tumour in Canada and claims she would have died if she didn't go to America for treatment. She ends warning Americans not to "give up their rights".

As a Canadian, this constant slamming on the airwaves during ad-time is starting to get annoying, and I know its annoying our political leaders here too. But there's nothing we can do. I assume there are laws about foreign countries inserting themselves in policy debates - but its frustrating that as a result of these ads there are likely going to be many Americans who form their opinions of Canadian health care partially as a result of these ads.

My parents were in China recently and ran into some Americans, we chuckled after my parents related how the earnest American wife asked about how well we like our "socialist" health care.

You can really see where the money is on this - while I have seen an ad or two in the past for the opposite viewpoint there are at least 3 ads in high circulation right now lined up for the status quo: the ad about the Canadian health care, the one with the bulldozer, and another one I cant remember too well.

They're all in prime time spots too. Lotta cash behind that.

I'd imagine that even some of those who don't like Obama's plan or don't like government health care on principle are likely put off by the overly-simplistic jingoism of these advertisements.
 
If you've not read it ask Rolfe for her comments of that particular case - it would appear that the facts are not quite as portrayed.
 
Ya i was curious about that. I kind of gave the story the benefit of the doubt cause I figured to make an ad around it, it would have to be pretty solid.

That being said, I don't believe a "war of anecdotes" is all that productive a way to determine the relative benefits of each system.

Every health care system will have horror stories - the real meat is how many of them they are and how widespread they are, not the contours of any one particular case.
 
Praktik said:
Ya i was curious about that. I kind of gave the story the benefit of the doubt cause I figured to make an ad around it, it would have to be pretty solid.

That being said, I don't believe a "war of anecdotes" is all that productive a way to determine the relative benefits of each system.

Every health care system will have horror stories - the real meat is how many of them they are and how widespread they are, not the contours of any one particular case.
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Short answer: the story is a lie. She didn't have a brain tumour at all. She had something called a Rathke Cleft Cyst.
http://brainsurgery.upmc.com/condit...utm_medium=cpc&utm_term=8382619&iq_id=8382619

ETA: A quick check reveals that the wait time was a lie too. The Ontario govt keeps track of these things, and the wait time (defined as the point at which 9 out of 10 patients have completed surgery) for neurological surgery in Ontario as a whole is 49 days. Also, a search of wait times right now shows 5 out of the 8 facilities that perform neurological surgery in her area report no volume - i.e. no wait time!

5-6 months my aching ass.
 
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Ziggurat said:
No. Whoever is willing to pay enough. There is a difference, though you may choose to pretend it does not exist.
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When you have $100 you can't buy something that costs $200. This is not a matter of choice nor a question of how much you are willing to pay.

This fact is self evident
 
D'rok said:
Short answer: the story is a lie. She didn't have a brain tumour at all. She had something called a Rathke Cleft Cyst.
http://brainsurgery.upmc.com/condit...utm_medium=cpc&utm_term=8382619&iq_id=8382619

ETA: A quick check reveals that the wait time was a lie too. The Ontario govt keeps track of these things, and the wait time (defined as the point at which 9 out of 10 patients have completed surgery) for neurological surgery in Ontario as a whole is 49 days. Also, a search of wait times right now shows 5 out of the 8 facilities that perform neurological surgery in her area report no volume - i.e. no wait time!

5-6 months my aching ass.
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The fact that they had to make up a lie out of whole cloth should tell you everything you need to know about this debate.
 
Ziggurat said:
You want an example of where the distinction between ability and willingness to pay matters? In the fact that some people choose to forgo buying health insurance. The number of such people is not small.
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This is called self-selection and it’s one of the most serious problems in the US health care system. People forgo insurance and pocket the money until they need care. When the need care, instead of paying for the care itself they go shopping for insurance effectively passing on their medical bills to people who legitimately paid their insurance all along.

This drives the unavailability of insurance except in large pools, the sensitivity of insurance companies to preexisting conditions, the high cost of insurance and the extremely high administrative overhead in the US health care system.

The "choice" they are making isn't to not receive medical care, but to push the cost of the risk they insure for their own medical care onto other people.
 
ponderingturtle said:
You are wrong, the companies bill per trip even thought the staff is paid by the hour.

On another note, tipping is apreciated.
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We don't have "companies", the ambulances do not "bill" anyone, and I'm sure tipping would be illegal.
 
volatile said:
We don't have "companies", the ambulances do not "bill" anyone, and I'm sure tipping would be illegal.
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See Darat's post for evidence that do you have companies. And I am sure that they would appreciate tips too for transporting your back and forth to the doctor.
 
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