• Quick note - the problem with Youtube videos not embedding on the forum appears to have been fixed, thanks to ZiprHead. If you do still see problems let me know.

Evidence for why we know the New Testament writers told the truth.

Status
Not open for further replies.
Mojo said:
Would you like a nice cup of tea?
Click to expand...
Certainly. I'd love a nice cup of tea.

Did you know that a nice cup of tea proves the bible true! It does. Because the tea is hot, the bible is true and since the bible is true, the tea is hot. As the tea cools, this proves the bible true. And we know the bible is true because the tea cools. and when the tea is cold, the bible is true and we know that the bible is true because the tea is cold...
 
joobz said:
Certainly. I'd love a nice cup of tea.

Did you know that a nice cup of tea proves the bible true! It does. Because the tea is hot, the bible is true and since the bible is true, the tea is hot. As the tea cools, this proves the bible true. And we know the bible is true because the tea cools. and when the tea is cold, the bible is true and we know that the bible is true because the tea is cold...
Click to expand...
No tea for you. Too much caffeine.
 
Ahem. Must I remind you that Isaiah 40 proves God is English (at least in the REAL Bible, the King James)? Come for tea, my people.
 
Mr Clingford said:
Ahem. Must I remind you that Isaiah 40 proves God is English (at least in the REAL Bible, the King James)? Come for tea, my people.
Click to expand...



Are you referring to:

Isaiah 40: 14
Behold, the nations are as a drop of a bucket, and are counted as the small dust of the balance: behold, he taketh up the isles as a very little thing.
Click to expand...


Because, it obviously speaks about Hawaii. Why would God ever choose rainy Britain as his retirement place?
 
Last edited:
Mojo said:
joobz said:
But but but but....
The bible says they did, so it must be true!!!
And becuase it's true that means the bible is true. We also know that the bible says these things happened, so those things much be true. And since those things are true we know that the bible is true.We also know that the bible says these things happened, so those things much be true. And since those things are true we know that the bible is true.We also know that the bible says these things happened, so those things much be true. And since those things are true we know that the bible is true.We also know that the bible says these things happened, so those things much be true. And since those things are true we know that the bible is true.We also know that the bible says these things happened, so those things much be true. And since those things are true we know that the bible is true.We also know that the bible says these things happened, so those things much be true. And since those things are true we know that the bible is true.We also know that the bible says these things happened, so those things much be true. And since those things are true we know that the bible is true.We also know that the bible says these things happened, so those things much be true. And since those things are true we know that the bible is true.We also know that the bible says these things happened, so those things much be true. And since those things are true we know that the bible is true.We also know that the bible says these things happened, so those things much be true. And since those things are true we know that the bible is true.We also know that the bible says these things happened, so those things much be true. And since those things are true we know that the bible is true......
Click to expand...
Would you like a nice cup of tea?
Click to expand...

Thou preparest a post before me in the presence of mine enemies: thou asplodeth my head with paste; my cup runneth over.
 
joobz said:
And because it's true that means the bible is true. We also know that the bible says these things happened, so those things much be true. And since those things are true we know that the bible is true.We also know that the bible says these things happened, so those things much be true. And since those things are true we know that the bible is true......
Click to expand...

Ha, that's nothing. What's really true is that the Pope is infallible. That means god won't let him make mistakes. Absolutely. He's not allowed.

Popes were kind of shy up until about the year 1870 when Pope Pius IX just came flat out and admitted it. "I am infallible", he said. "As a matter of act, all the popes were infallible. They just didn't come right out and say it. They thought it might sound kind of presumptuous. But to hell with false humility, I say. We just can't make mistakes in theology. Mind you, my math is kind of shaky, and Geography was never my strong point, and physics -- well, the less said about that the better. But when it comes to faith, man, I'm the world authority. I trump the bible. And don't you forget it, either."

So. There you have it. The pope is infallible. We know this because he said so. And it's retroactive. He can explain exactly what those annoying contradictions in the bible really meant, but for some reason didn't quite say. And if he blots his copybook with that little minx of an altarboy, very seductive type, that little fellow, very unnaturally precocious, the very sort that Satan might put in his way to tempt him. Anyhow, makes no diff. He's infallible, not impeccable.

So don't even think of falling him, but it's okay to peck him.

Oh, and how did the Pope find out he's infallible? Well, god told him, of course. And how did the Pope know for sure the voice he heard was god's?

Well, duh! Because he's infallible! He simply cannot err in matters of faith, like was the voice really god's. :eye-poppi:eye-poppi
 
Last edited:
babbits said:
Ha, that's nothing. What's really true is that the Pope is infallible. That means god won't let him make mistakes. Absolutely. He's not allowed.

Popes were kind of shy up until about the year 1870 when Pope Pius IX just came flat out and admitted it. "I am infallible", he said. "As a matter of act, all the popes were infallible. They just didn't come right out and say it. They thought it might sound kind of presumptuous. But to hell with false humility, I say. We just can't make mistakes in theology. Mind you, my math is kind of shaky, and Geography was never my strong point, and physics -- well, the less said about that the better. But when it comes to faith, man, I'm the world authority. I trump the bible. And don't you forget it, either."

So. There you have it. The pope is infallible. We know this because he said so. And it's retroactive. He can explain exactly what those annoying contradictions in the bible really meant, but for some reason didn't quite say. And if he blots his copybook with that little minx of an altarboy, very seductive type, that little fellow, very unnaturally precocious, the very sort that Satan might put in his way to tempt him. Anyhow, makes no diff. He's infallible, not impeccable.

So don't even think of falling him, but it's okay to peck him.

Oh, and how did the Pope find out he's infallible? Well, god told him, of course. And how did the Pope know for sure the voice he heard was god's?

Well, duh! Because he's infallible! He simply cannot err in matters of faith, like was the voice really god's. :eye-poppi:eye-poppi
Click to expand...



To nit-pick, and maybe you know this already, the concept of papal infallibility is not thought to apply all the time.
Just in very limited concept when the pope uses the channel divinity feat speaks ex cathedra. It really only happened twice officially.
 
DOC said:
The Jewish/Roman historian Jospephus had no problem believing Moses existed.

And here is some additional evidence of the Israelites being in Egypt around the time the bible said they were there:

Digging out the truth of Exodus
By Helen Fields
Posted 10/12/03

Egyptologist Manfred Bietak was reading a 60-year-old report of a dig near Luxor in Egypt when a surprising find caught his eye. Near a mortuary temple from the 12th century B.C., archaeologists had uncovered a grid of shallow trenches, which they guessed was the base of a workers' hut. Bietak, head of the Institute of Egyptology at Vienna University, recognized the floor plan as that of the four-room houses used by almost all Israelites from the 12th to the sixth century B.C.

http://www.usnews.com/usnews/culture/articles/031020/20exodus.htm
Click to expand...



Um, do you have any idea where Luxor is? Since the Israelites were supposed to be in the delta region and Moses was supposed to have lived a few hundred years earlier than the 12th century, I'd say this is the sort of evidence that might help support that the U.S. invaded Iraq in the 21st century because we found a similar home style to those found in an around Washington in pre-revolutionary Georgia. Not to mention that, as the article itself mentions, Israelites were not the only ones to build such houses.

You are aware that one of the 18th dynasty pharaohs (can't remember which right now) deported a large number of Canaanites and that Tutmose (the scond, I think) took a number of prisoners from the region after his conquests? And that there was quite a bit of movement of people from the Levant into Egypt at various times.

Do you really think that will help support the historicity of Moses?
 
Last edited:
Finds like Manfred Bietak's don't prove the existence of Moses or even that the Hebrews were anywhere near the place as stated in Exodus. It's just digging the hole a little deeper for the believers to climb out of.
 
Elizabeth I said:
Josephus probably had no problem believing that witches and sea serpents existed, but that doesn't mean they really did.
Click to expand...

But we have evidence by his own words that the historian Josephus believed Moses existed.

ETA: And not just existed but was a great general for the pharoah's army:

From the article: The Dynasty of Moses and the Queen of Sheba

However, prior to Moses leaving Egypt, the Jewish historian Josephus points out that he had been a great general who led Pharaoh's army to victory over the kingdom of Ethiopia, which had conquered most of Egypt. While attacking the Ethiopian capital city, Tharbis, the daughter of the king of Ethiopia, became enamoured of Moses, seeing his valiant exploits, and bargained to deliver the city into his hands if he would but marry her. Moses agreed, and she fulfilled her promise -- and Moses married her, and fulfilled the obligation of a husband to her, causing her to become pregnant (Josephus, Antiquities, II, x). This occurred sometime before 1532 B.C., when Moses was driven out of Egypt for slaying an Egyptian (Exodus 2: 11-150. The vitally important royal city where this conflict culminated was "Saba." Josephus relates:

"...he came upon the Ethiopians before they expected him; and, joining battle with them, he beat them, and deprived them of the hopes they had of success against the Egyptians, and went on in overthrowing their cities, and indeed made a great slaughter of these Ethiopians...the Ethiopians were in danger of being reduced to slavery, and all sorts of destruction; and at length they retired to SABA, which was a royal city of Ethiopia, which Cambyses afterward named MEROE, after the name of his own sister. The place was to be beseiged with very great difficulty, since it was both encompassed by the Nile quite round, and the other rivers..." (Ant., II, X, 2).

http://www.hope-of-israel.org/dynmoses.htm
 
Last edited:
paximperium said:
So?
Click to expand...

Where were you and Holulele when Zooterkin was making a big deal about the absence of evidence for Moses.

zooterkin said:
I see you're still struggling.

Do you have any evidence that there was such a person as Moses, outside of the text of the bible? Do you have any evidence that the Egyptians, who kept records, ever enslaved the Israelites, and that they were freed by Moses? Do you have any evidence that it was Moses who wrote the account? Do you believe that the position on that list of 100 has any meaning at all?
Click to expand...

By the way I added much more info about what Josephus said about Moses in this post:

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=4921668#post4921668
 
Last edited:
zooterkin said:
What was Josephus basing his stories on apart from the bible?

ETA: I think you're still struggling with that word, "evidence".
Click to expand...

On the contrary, I have the Jewish/Roman historian Josephus on my side with regard to the existence of Moses. Living in Rome as he did he must of had access to all kinds of information about Egypt since it was a province of the Roman Empire.

And why are you so concerned about proof for Moses. Hokulele and Pax seemed to think its no big deal even if Moses was a general in the pharoahs army as the Roman/Jewish historian Josephus stated he was.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Back
Top Bottom